I don't think you are being cheap, but in the human medicine such courtesy is largely a thing of the past. Really too bad! This is exacerbated by the insurance situation and the taking over of medicine by corporations. It also appears that insurance companies view the writing off of co-pays as fraud. I once however did a three-way trade involving some elective surgery I had.

Also, $900 for a cat dental seems quite outrageous, unless your vet has an office in Malibu Beach or was going to do a root canal plus crown. (Does anyone do this on a cat?) My last quote for a cat dental was just under $400.

Yes , I think you should of got a discount and at least something free . I used to have 2 dogs , 2 cats and 2 ferrets, my vet said that if I brought them all in at the same time ,for their well visit and shots, she would give me a discount . Well , that bill was well over $600.00 ----- she gave me a $25.00 discount . WOW , Ill never do that again , she could of at least gave me more than that . I had my son stay home from school and had a friend help me with all my pets ,and I got a $25.00 discount ! I now go to a different Vet , I only have 1 dog now and 2 cats . My 1 dog got cancer , which started in his toe . They amputated the toe and fused 2 toes together . He did pretty good for another year till he passed away. That bill was $600.and something , then my other dog had liver failure, with the test, meds , appointments , that bill was $1000.00 . Both dogs are gone 2 years now and Im still paying. I think my Vet should of gave me some discounts,,, Why does it have to cost so much ? I love my pets , they are my kids . Im on a fixed income and think Vets should give more of a discount.

I am very sorry for the loss of your beloved pets. I too lost my most loyal, intelligent and well trained lab of only 8 years AFTER the vet ripped me off $1000 testing her for diabetes (she was not overweight), thyroid, autoimmune, and many other tests--finally three X rays which she READ WRONG.... 3 mos later another vet in the practice read the Xrays and says, hmm, looks like IT COULD BE A CERVICAL DISC problem...dah. The only symptom the poor dog had was pain in her neck. So, another round of meds which made the dog feel great...so the dog proceeded to blow out the bulging disc and become paralyzed within five days. The dog should have been crated while medicated and not one of the vets in a four vet practice even suggested crating her. SO, I also have a pretty skeptical opinion of where Vet care has been headed for a few years. The bottom line is we the owners ultimately hand over our hard earned cash. I feel $4000 better off I didn't opt for the surgery. I humanely put dear Libby out of her misery. Some Vets are just better and more ethical than others. Buyers beware but don't be manipulated. If you can't afford to finance your VET's education, be prepared to help dear pet across the bridge. I believe if more Pet owners had this attitude, there might be fewer vets and fewer extraordinary procedures... and yes, less money in the Pet Care Economy.

Further on the Economics of Pet Care... I've been studying the astronomical rate of abandoned pets...and I believe one of the major reasons people bring their pets to the SPCA is because they can't afford them anymore! Vet care is just too expensive.
In my town, Cook county Illinois, the county subsidized pet neutering and the rate of birth and abandonment went down...too many pets breeding, too many pets needing care results in too many pets being abandoned.

@Desmondsmom: You are so on target. If more people could afford pet care, then they would seek it. Often they end up overwhelmed, frustrated, and angry and the pets get dumped and abandoned. No one can make me believe that Vet care is appx 200% mark up in most areas. EX: My pup needed to be neutered, have a hernia repaired, have a growth removed on the side of his eye, and his teeth cleaned. Quote from one vet was arnd $750.00 just for teeth, another $500.00 just for teeth. My new vet (of about a year now) did the neuter, hernia repair, removed growth near eye and cleaned his teeth $135.00, which included all take home meds, his check up visit to remove stitches, and blood work done prior to administering anesthesia. Just to do his teeth would have been $45.00 dollars. Plus, this dentist and his wife drive new vehicles, 3 kids in college, two out of college and a beautiful horse ranch with huge gorgeous home (and wife never did work). So no one can tell me that we should be put in a position to have to contemplate not paying house note/rent this month because the dog needs flea meds and his ears checked. This topic would have been wonderful had the "lack of professionalism" been targeted at helping us pet owners and consumers and NOT the professional care giver (vet). Just Sad.

I get a 10% "volume" discount (4 or more critters) on most services which certainly helps and is most appreciated.

Like everything in health care, more technology and procedures means more expense for the doc and that is passed onto the patient (pet). Third party payment via pet insurances feeds the beast. I've made a commitment. If my dearly beloved needs EXTRAORDINARY CARE ie surgery--it won't happen. Put him down. I have a budget, a retirement, and kids that still need to go to college. I also make regular contributions to my highest priority charity--the Wounded Warriors. It would brake my heart not to be able to give to the WW Fund. So, I won't go the VET expense route. Shots, check ups, worming--good care--but nothing extraordinary. I've already put down my beloved Lab when after a $1000 of distracting (money making) tests, one of the four vets in the practice said, 'can't do anything for Libby, she needs a vet surgeon... vet surgeon says, $4000, 75% up front. Very sad indeed. My breeder said don't do it, how are you going to nurse your 80 lb lab even if she comes through the surgery (50% chance). The breeder was taken to the cleaners when she did agree to the surgery (once five years ago, her most beautiful stud).... never walked again, had to put him down anyway. I know I have to pay in heartbreak, I won't also pay in dollars and deprive my other priorities of their due....Wounded Warriors deserve better ...they are human heros. Set a budget and don't be manipulated. Negotiate.
If the Vet says no, go elsewhere. Always get an itemized list before treatment.
Heartboken but still financially viable!

I think the bigger issue is astronomical vet bills.... I agree, can't believe one vet wants a "professional" discount.
You have to trust your vet. After a devastating experience with a vet who took $1000 of my money to do 'unrelated tests", I changed vets. Simple. My new vet handled a very nasty chryptorchid neutering--a simple clip turned into major abdominal surgery--she graciously provided three follow-up exams NC and offered many good suggestions for home nursing. She could have taken me to the cleaners. Professionalism to me means competence, compassion, communication and trust.

I cannot believe that this topic is about one veterinarian carping about not getting services from another vet for less than what all other pet ownwers would have to pay. When I read the title, I thought I was going to read something substantive and of value to pet owners in general, like rudeness to patient owners, or lax diagnosis skills, or shilling for a kibble vendors. BUT NOOOOOO! I read about one vet complaining about not getting special treatment from other vets.

Is that what you think that is what "professionalism" is all about? How is this article supposed to be helpful to your audience? This is an article that you should have put in your desk draw for a day, and then using your better judgment, thrown out the next day.

Well..to be honest..I think it's kinda nice for you to have another perspective on paying vet bills...so..yes, I feel like you're just being cheap.

My god woman are you serious? I spend thousands a year at my own vet and nary a discount do I ever get...what professional courtesy are you offering these vets? I am offering my vet 3 dogs who are in need of something rather major each year. I spend at least $3k a year on veterinary expenses (knock on wood) and thousands on their food too. Now my feed store gives me a discount...are you going to harp next on how you should get one there too because you went to veterinary school?

If anything we all as loyal clients and professionals should get a discount from our regular vet.

Wah Wah Wah is what I have to say to you.

Target doesn't give discounts to Williams-Sonoma employees.

But,really, Dr. Lee, your topic is petty and more appropriate for water-cooler discussions with other vets. We read this blog to learn about pet health issues, not to put up with complaining about getting special treatment from other vets.

I used to read this blog for Vet med info and advice, but I have to say, this discussion has sooo affirmed my perception of the state of Veterinary medicine, I feel the 'off topic" info has been very revealing and very helpful.

But , Isn't the same with any other profession ? A mechanic is always going back to school to learn about the new cars . When he works on a customers car, he has to stay in a certain price range or he wont get any business . He makes enough money to survive. He cant over charge or he will be out of business. It doesnt matter what it cost for him to go to school.

But, you could still give a discount ! I have had alot of pets , And when Ive taken them to the vets , It sure would be nice to get a discount since I spend alot of money there . Isnt it the customers that keeps you in business? I love me pets and try to do everything I can for them . Its just ashame that sometimes money is tight and vet bills are so expensive, that some people just put their pets to sleep , cause they dont have the money to pay .And it break their kids hearts! I wish that Vets would give an option, that people could pay what they can afford or pay according to their income. You wouldnt put your kid to sleep , because you couldnt afford the bill !!! And to some people their pets are their kids ....

I must have been under the false impression that these blogs on PetMD were for the benefit of the pet owner, the consumer, for the many who were not lucky (privileged) enough to attend 8 yrs of school (college and grad school). However, Dr. Justine, it was your choice to pursue this career. And, I would assume you had an estimate of total time and cost you would need to commit to it. I have a JD and PhD. I have been a single mom for over 19yrs, and both of my sons are in college (one pursuing 6yr dual major in Mathematics and Petroleum Engineering, the other with intentions of becoming an Orthopedic Surgeon while playing college baseball during his undergrad yrs.) I don't even get discount tickets to watch my son play ball for at-home games. Fortunately G.I. Bill, TOPS, Scholarships, etc. make it possible for them to pursue their dreams without having to incur outrageous debt.

I don't understand why you even wrote this comment/blog. I mean hell, life ain't always easy, but this is just petty.

I'm out of here... no more PetMD.

I think it is time to end Dr. Lee's "ego trip" here. She obviously believes she is entitled to something as pet owners and customers of vets we do not totally understand. I find this whole commentary of hers arrogant and the article just plain stupid. Why write to an audience of owners about problems of professionals unless this reaction was exactly what she wanted.

I am leaving petmd because I find nothing interesting in these articles but most things are actually infuriating and some just plain misleading. I hope that the people who own this blog will someday find contributors that will actually assist pet owners instead of aiding egomaniac doctors in their trivial dribble.

My fabulous internist didn't get into Vet school so she became--my fabulous internal medicine doctor. First female Chief Resident at a prestigious hospital-soo, I would never underestimate the knowledge or intelligence of my VET. The out of control education costs is partly fueled by third party payments (government loans etc.) that put many graduates in big debt. This is very unfortunate but an economic fact. Just because you spent a fortune on your Vet school does not mean you are entitled to earn $1000 -$4000 per patient. I love my animals but they are animals and we simply cannot afford Vet bills of this size. Perhaps owning a pet will soon be a status symbol of the wealthy who can afford to spend more on their pet than I spend out of pocket on my kids. There are plenty of other jobs for Vets that pay more and use the fabulous education they paid a fortune for. If you want to work in the not-for profit sector, then you may need a supplemental income.

You are practicing in the wrong market. Plenty of Pet owners in my neighborhood easily spend $1000 per year and after the pet is over five years old, add another $1000. One trip to the animal 911 is easily $1000 for the lab that loves to eat non-edibles. Add $100 for the repeated ear infections of floppy eared dogs ( I no longer let my lab swim in anything but a doggie day care clean pool-it's a savings!) And on and on. I only feed my lab kibble and he gets plenty of teeth cleaning so we'll skip that expense. Something is really wrong with society when people spend more money on their dogs than they do on their kids (or maybe you don't have children) medical care. Vets BTW are probably making as much as pediatricians who are sadly underpaid.

My estimates are based on past experience. Previous Vet experiences. Many of my friends budget $1000 per year for Vet care ... seems once the puppy shots are over (which is relatively cheap) then the real cost begin... the teeth cleaning under anesthesia is my favorite! How about the surgery for hip dysplasia--(watch out where you obtain your puppy) another under anesthesia procedure... and is it right to break the dogs hips to correct the dysplasia? We could go on and on...like the breeders who over and inter-breed the pedigrees and the staggering number of genetic flaws being produced... requiring yet more and more sophisticated extraordinary procedures. I'm not making up any of this--

Dear Doc Lee, you really expect the average pet owner to do 'the blood work". My very competent breeder does many of the procedures you suggest a pet owner should do--and in many cases, her judgement is better than a Vet five years out of vet school.

Yes, its ashame that some people have to give up thier pets or have thier pets put to sleep over the high cost of meds or a vet bill !! Sure would be nice to have a clinic , that charges by your income .

Income based services are typically underwritten by the government - that is, subsidized. The income based clinics are not losing money because they are getting it back from the government. Try to get income based care from a doctor in private practice, unless said doctor is subsidized by the government, it will never happen.

The only way that we can ask animal clinics to provide income based care is to first convince our communities and local lawmakers that it would be in everyone's best interest to underwrite veterinary care so that people can keep their pets healthy, just as they would a human child. This will never, ever pass on a federal level, but perhaps in some communities that value pets, the local lawmakers, with the support of the community, could pass a tax that would pay for subsidized veterinary care.

The only way to make something like this happen is on the ground. Start a group, try to push it through in your community. Be the first, town/city/state to give real value to pet health by underwriting income based veterinary clinics.

Sorry, but unless you are talking about subsidy for working dogs, therapy dogs, dogs for the blind or for wounded warriors, adding yet another burden onto taxpayers who have no say on how their taxes are spent is immoral! I can justify government subsidized neutering because it LOWERS the existing costs of animal control. Please, don't start looking for more ways for the government to assume the responsibility of people who choose to pay too much for Vet care. Pets are not a right or a necessity and I am an animal lover. Again, more third party payment just inflates the prices and the entire VET care economy. Government subsidies in general --usually a really bad idea.

I asked myself how I would feel in your situation and asked others at the clinic where I do relief work. As a relief veterinarian, I don't necessarily have a home hospital. We all wondered, did you state that you are a veterinarian upfront? Did you inquire about an industry discount? Were you presented with an estimate prior to diagnostics or treatments? Why do you feel that the care of your pet was adequate? We all believe that a discount would've been appropriate, but we're more likely to be willing do it more if we had an established relationship with that specialist.

That being said, for the specialists that we have established relationships with, we would everything but give them the keys to the front door. So, I do feel that you should've received some special treatment.

However, I would not characterize it as a lack of professionalism. I think that would be something else entirely. But, I do think that there is a better forum for this and you may find better feedback, imho.

Doctor Lee, do you have children?
How much did you claim last year on your tax return for 'charitable contributions".

Dr. Justine and Desmondsmom:
Dr., did I not just see where you told Desmondsmom that her "estimates are crazy- no one is making $1000-4000 on one patient"? Yet in this comment you say you had an $8000.00 bill for your pet and were disappointed because you did not receive a percentage discount. Vet care is out of control... blame it on what you want to, but if my vet can neuter, fix a hernia, remove a small growth on the side of his eye, do full dental treatment, run pre-anesthesia blood work, and send home meds, plus do check up and stitch removal 12 days post-op ALL for $135.00...
I don't need to say anymore because I beleive that the combination of procedures etal, as stated above, would run close to $1,000.00 OR MORE in your clinic.

Wow !!! You have a great Vet --I want to take my pets there , Where are you ? This is exactly what Im talking about . If this Vet can do all this and only charge %130.00 , why cant the other Vets ? And Ill bet this Vet that Amanda's talking about , has lots of customers!!! And doest have a problem with paying back their student loans !

I am a retired Veterinarian , who is appalled by present day fee's. I think the profession is pricing themselves out of the market,for most middle to low income families, with children. Part of the problem is that most Veterinarians want to work 35-40 hours per week and still make a large income. I never worked less than 60 hours per week. I started and sold 7 veterinary practices that are all doing well today. The last practice I sold was grossing $1,200,000. in 1990 and is doing over $4.5 Million gross today. As soon as I left, the fees began an upward projectory, that has not stopped. I am embarrassed by their fee structure. I think the profession is killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. I know about all the debt students have, but there is a way around this, after pre vet, I took 2 years off and worked and saved money to pay for my future education. I also worked nights and week ends for 35 hours a week, while in Vet school. I graduated with a very manageable debt. No one ever said life would be easy!

My current vet is 60 years old and she is the best! I believe the cost of Vet care is having a cruel effect--more pets ending up in shelters--more pets abandoned because of the high cost of Vet care.
I simply won't pay it.
My grand exception, is I contribute generously to Guide Dogs for the Blind and the Wounded Warrior Foundation, and the Vet Dogs Organization. http://www.vetdogs.org/
I would hope that there is still come altruism left in the Veterinarian community and perhaps a 'discount" would be given to a wounded warrior who really needs his/her working dog.

I don't object to a professional discount, I get perks from my job because I'm part of an industry. But I admit to a small amount of evil glee over "Paying $82 for a bottle of prescription dog food ticked me off." Why are vets trying to make money off of food to begin with? Prescription food is one of those areas where I truly wish I had more choices in terms of brands, formulas and where to purchase. It's not an occasional expense, my cat is on in for life and I'm paying that markup every month for the life of my pet! So you know how it feels.

When my dog had liver failure, my vet sold me a prescription canned dog food , $90.00 a case . My dog was so sick , she didnt like to food , and passed away within a month of the purchase. We only used about 4 cans, I kept trying to get her to eat . Also was making burger and rice, liver, chicken, etc. But really had a hard time getting her to eat anything. My vet did buy back the unused food.

Dr. Justine,
I recv'd an estimate to have my beagles teeth cleaned in a newer/larger Veterinarian Clinic in a larger town: $750.00 (barring any complications). Then I went to my parents and went to see their vet, who had been in practice appx 10 yrs, staff full of very young, beautiful girls, brand new building. And, for one Vet, an excess of personnel. However, his estimate was right at $500.00. I made the appt for the next week. Funny how fate/karma seems to work; it just so happened that my son (who is in the USAF) had been on two week leave, and he and his wife were staying with me, along with their two year old Basset (from herein referred to as Scooter/Scoot). He was stationed in Nebraska and we live in South Louisiana and they drove in to avoid flight stress on Scooter. The day before they were scheduled to leave to go back to Neb., my son had a meeting with an USAF Officer, stationed in Louisiana (appx 50 miles from our home), so when he returned to my home, he was dressed in full USAF Blues (formal attire). Somehow their dog, Scoot, dug up an old soup bone (round with hole in the middle) in our yard, and just as my son drove up, his wife and I decided that because the bone slipped behind his lower tall, sort-of-pointed that it was STUCK on his lower jaw and the only way to remove it was to call this new vet I had found only days prior. His office closed at 6, we called at 20 til 6, but did not arrive until 10-15 after 6. The doctor had NEVER even left the clinic.

We drive up, me behind the wheel, my son (in full military formal uniform)trying to engage Scooter in an effort to keep his mind off of this huge bone stuck on his jaw, my younger son assisting in such efforts and a crying daughter-in-law. Within 10 minutes Scooter had been given his sleepy shot and bone was removed with a saw blade thinner than a fine piece of thread. Then the time comes to settle the bill: a young man in uniform, his beautiful wife, their beloved dog (no children), doctor knowing that they were leaving at 3 am to return to Neb., with the dog... and so on... Total Bill (including emergency treatment, although the vet had never even left the clinic): $865.00 and they were given the sawed bone as a souvenir. My son explains that they do not have that kind of cash on them and the vet would not take a check. By now, I have loaded the pup into the car and was headed out of the parking lot (we had gone in separate cars; although I cannot remember why. As I am merging onto the highway my son calls and says that they will be paying a $865.00 emerg bill (which almost caused me to loose control of my vehicle... And, all they have is their debit card or a credit card; however, the vet does not know how to run either (so no credit card) and does not trust the money is in the account for the debit card, so the good doctor insisted on following them to the nearest ATM machine where they are allowed to withdraw ONLY $500.00 per day. So, I had to turn around and meet them at the ATM where I was able to draw out $300.00 per day... And between us all, we scuffed up his $65.00 bucks.

I found another vet for my animals, which at the time included 4 horses. My new vet older, his building may not be brand new, but it certainly suffices as a vet hospital. He has several employees, but he is so busy that I usually have to wait 30-45 minutes to see him (unless emergency or critical). At the previous vet (the miracle bone excavator), you never waited long because he has much fewer clients (an assumption).

I just want to end with this: the new doctor I found, does not make ANY profit on meds he RX, he thinks all ppl should be able to afford to get medical care for their animals. His prices are about 1/4 of the last vet (and much less for vets in larger cities) but he says it does not matter to him b/c he sees 4-5 times the clients the other guy does in a week... plus open on Saturdays!! I have a Teddy Bear pup about a yr old. I had him neutered, hernia repaired, small growth on side of eye removed and stitched, teeth cleaned (all in one visit) for $135,00 And that included his take home meds and check up visit two weeks later.

That is a vet and a humanitarian. I truly feel that the reward for working with and saving animals, must began as, and continue to be a task of intrinsic value. Like many things, once you put a price tag on such services, it becomes a job, where motivations change and the want for money and material possessions becomes the more powerful motivation; however, such reward is intrinsic, thus changing the way one views their job/service. Of course ppl should consider financial gains when contemplating a career choice; however, scientific research shows that when someone begins receiving outside compensation (money, cars, nice home, new office building, young female associates at beck and call (or visa verse), etc., then these extrinsic rewards can over shadow one's intrinsic motivation (such as love of animals, passion for day to day duties, tasks, responsibilities, self-worth based on altruism, desire to help others,etc). When this occurs ppl usually become less satisfied, more frustrated, less patient, less motivated, less feelings of self-worth and confidence, more depressed moods, discontent in career, etc. Their once love and passion for their career becomes a JOB for a paycheck. It begins to have little, or no, more meaning than that. We all know theses people. Some show it overtly in their dealings with the public/customers and some are more covert... sticking it to ya when you get the bill!!

After reading other commentates, and responses regarding such, I'm not sure this topic is really appropriate; especially for those who, 5 years ago, could give their pet(s) the ultimate in health/pet care; however, so many ppl can no longer afford such care with this economy and unemployment rate. Some ppl would be grateful just to have the funds available to them, as to seek out care for their pets. Perhaps gratitude and humility are missing in this article. As mentioned before, we were upset and angry when a vet scalped my son for vet care, even though we were in the middle of a war and my son was in full military USAF formal attire. We would have liked the courtesy, but instead he and his wife were "robbed" (for lack of a better word) by a selfish, greedy, inconsiderate, ill-mannered vet.

Anyway... sorry for such a long comment... I guess I had more to share than I thought! Thanks for the article Dr. Justine. It really hit a cord with me for some reason!!

Amanda,
Your post contains one of the most arrogant, crass comments I've read in a long, long time. You said, "I truly feel that the reward for working with and saving animals, must began as, and continue to be a task of intrinsic value."

By what right do you make this statement? What gives you the right to make such a comment about another's livelihood and profession?

May I ask what it is that you do for a living? Do you do it simply for the "intrinsic value?" Why not?

Before you go pontificating about someone's livelihood, give some thought to what you're about to say or write.

NEOHIODVM:

What your response to me suggests, you don't understand Amanda's world where people (our young men and women) actually VOLUNTEER which is the essence of 'intrinsic rewards" for SERVICE. Do you believe people volunteer to serve in our military for the high salary, benefits and job security? Old myths. Salaries are frozen, benefits shrinking and layoffs are in full swing. There are people in the world who are idealists and they volunteer-so Amanda is not arrogant, she's just shocked at the response the "protected and entitled" Pet Vet gave her son in full military uniform. I'm old school, remember Vietnam well, my dad served on WW2 (greatest generation) and have watched the entitlement mentality overwhelm our society.... one of the factors in the expectation of professional discount.

Now for the real cynical analysis.... in my experience, professional discounts happen because there is an expectation that professional peers will REFER their 'clients" to other professionals. Best to keep up friendly well oiled economic relationships with one's "professional" peers to keep the referrals and revenue flowing.

I think you owe Amanda an apology.

I think that this vet owes Amanda an apology as well. There are many professions that pay little and have high risk. Does anyone actually think that a police office, esp. this day and age, is paid fairly for the job that they do? And how about teachers? They deal with disrespectful students, parents who are illiterate themselves, students bringing guns to school and shooting up the place, and if anyone thinks that they are fairly remunerated for their jobs, think again.
Frankly, I am very tired of hearing the younger generation of vets whining about paying off their student loans.
If the current trend of rising fees (completely unrelated to "frivlous" lawsuits, or rising malpractice insurance) continues, no one will be able to afford to have a pet. THEN, to whom will you complain, and how will you make your living?

Exactly , they want to work a 40 hr a week job , and get paid for 80 !! If you dont mind , I just want to keep my pets healthy , and to live a long happy , healthy life !!! There needs to be a cap on the charges that a Vet is allowed to charge.

I will say it again: to be a good vet, doctor, psychiatrist, social worker, or anyone else who works with/for the public, in such a way as to profoundly impact/effect the lives of people (and their beloved pets), SHOULD be intrinsically moved/motivated towards such a career. A key words is "GOOD". If you would have read the initial post correctly, I speak about the absolute of extrinsic reward and its necessity; however, if someone is going to be effective and successful in the career areas mentioned above, I [STILL] FEEL that altruistic behaviors and intrinsic motivation are crucial. For example: I would certainly prefer to be spending my time with people who are more intelligent, have better reading comprehension skills, and are less of a jerk than you. People want to be able to trust those who care for them or their loved ones. They also tend not to trust people they do not like. So without some portrayal of genuine care/concern and altruism, such professionals have less quantity and quality of clients (because if your clients don't like you, they may put up with your nasty, unappreciative attitude, but they're going to give it right back to you). Any professional working with my children, or my dogs, had better know how to act like they give a damn and that my concerns are the only ones that matter. Because if they start complaining about everything from student loans, cheating husbands, broken car, remodeling the foyer, and having to pay vet bills... I'm liable to leave in the middle of the exam.
P.S. My original post was not directed at the author of the article (again... READ) and, since you requested... I am an A.D.A., who also has a PhD in Clinical Psychology with a specialization in Juvenile Counseling. I do not receive a salary for counseling and being a criminal attorney for the state hasn't made me a millionaire! I choose not to go into private practice because I feel compelled to be an advocate for victims/families torn apart by violent crime; therefore I consider my life's career to be based on intrinsic reward rather than monetary gains.

I am shocked at YOUR lack of professionalism. I would have thought that as a DVM you would have had better reading comprehension skills. Try again. I know I wrote the original post quickly and w/out proof-reading; however, it seems that several people did understand the main idea and were able to differentiate between the conclusion of the passage and the premises that led to it. And, as in anything I write based on my opinions or beliefs... I made no finite comment regarding any individual or practice. I used words such as, "feel", "believe", et al.

I am sorry you experienced the worst of American .... "lack of appreciation" for our men and women who volunteer to protect the very life style all of these folks feel entitled to. Here in Norfolk, fortunately, most military families can use the Base Vets at "cost". Many of these vets also care for the active military dogs (the K-9 units) who also serve and protect...and often giving their lives so a human can live (and not get blown up by an IED. This discussion has given me amazing insight to the priorities of many people today....

Clearly there are several here who believe that they ought to be able to dictate to a service provider that which she/he earns for providing the particular service. This is the arrogant, crass attitude to which I referred. There will be no apology.

If you believe that veterinarians should trade years of education, debt and hard work for little in return, guess what... there are veterinarians who do this! Feel free to utilize their services.

For the rest of us, who believe in the truth "one gets what one pays for" and "there's no free lunch," we'll continue to charge appropriately for our services. And here's the best part: you get to choose!

And consider this: When it comes to medicine, human and veterinary, you can have two of the following three, but you can't have all three: (1) quality medicine, (2) cheap medicine, (3) quick/on demand medicine.

NEOHIODVM: Yes, there are folks who think Vets should charge less, not make money off drugs and food and generally be more professional like MDs' (not in the sense of professional discount) and more compassionate like the best human doctors. Hoefully my posts have added more light on the Economics of Pet Care the huge variability in the cost of DVM education and the choices DVMs make. That there's a shortage of large animal Vets again reflects on the Vets themselves, who turn their back on the shortage and seek specialization for small animal medicine so they can tap into the huge economy in Pet Care.
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/business/keeping-large-animal-vets-farm

Repeating myself, Vet education is caught up in the same 'education bubble" that the rest of higher ed has created--spiraling costs shifting to the student.
But I'm surely not dictating anything to VETS, I'm advocating Pet parents be way more discerning who they pay and how much. Don't let this beast Pet Economy and the situational emotional spending you may face with a greedy vet. Pet parents, unless you have a service/Guide/therapy dog, DO NOT buy pet insurance, do not develop a Vet relationship with a greedy vet, establish early on your limits and philosophy with the Vet and approximate how much you will spend on procedures/tests etc., before you reach the euthanasia limit. And for the love of God do not lose sight of the quality of life of you beloved Pet. Don't keep them alive for your own selfish reasons.
EVENTUALLY, when the money spicket is turned off, aspiring Vets will adjust their choices and expectations.
I am a free market advocate NOT a price control proponent so I would never dictate your fees. But I have enjoyed the opportunity to be affirmed and further expose the absence of accountability, malignant unbridled greed of the majority of young vets today, that is taking over the Veterinary industry-and all it took was being grossly abused by three Vets under 40 last year, who accepted no responsibility for a cascade of errors, over treatment, over-charging which resulted in the death of a Pet that was otherwise very health (with perfect teeth at 8 years old I might add!) This forum has been a blessing for many of us who have been abused, our emotions exploited, and our wallets emptied. Lastly, Dr. Lee has been 'hoist by her own pitard".... insulted and abused by the "over charging' of her peers, merely experiencing the same abuse she heaps on others.

Dear Dr. Lee,

Now you know what the rest of us go through in order to get decent veterinary care for our animal companions.

Perhaps you and your colleagues should consider the fact that the cost of veterinary care seems to have gotten out of control and that those of us (especially those on limited incomes) find it prohibitively expensive and agonize over how we're going to be able to afford to give our animals the veterinary care they deserve.

While I don't begrudge a vet making a REASONABLE profit for their business, I do begrudge the greed and avarice I commonly encounter on the parts of many vets in re their pricing, especially the what I perceive as huge profit margins on drugs, fluids, various paraphernalia and prescription diets they sell to their clients. Example: I buy 1000ml Lactated Ringers Injectable Solution from my local pharmacy for approximately $22 a case of 12. That's less than $2 a bag. My vet charges his clients $35 a bag. I buy a 3.5g tube of Erythromycin Topical Eye Ointment at my local pharmacy for $9.99 a tube. My vet ophthalmologist charged me $50 for the first tube. And the list of transgressions is endless. And these outrageous prices are the norm for the majority of the vets I've encountered recently, not just my primary care vet.

There is no excuse for this pricing behavior.

Don't look to us ordinary folk, aka veterinary services clients, for sympathy --- there isn't any forthcoming.

Exactly, Why does the Vet need a $32.00 profit on a med.
Thats insane !!!!

Dr. Lee, I have had veterinarians come to my practice to perform surgery on their pets and to have medical tests and radiographs. I have never charged more than cost of meds. Two weeks ago a veterinarian come from a neighboring practice to purchase food which I sold her at cost. She has to pay full price at the practice where she is employed.
I admit that I am a dinosaur. I graduated in 1979 when advertising was unethical and could result in loss of licensure.
I also believe that pets are FAMILY, and that the parent of a pet who is killed through negligence or malice should receive compensation above replacement value as property. I invite you to check out Gracie's Law-Pets are Family on Facebook and consider a discussion of Gracie's Law at the 2013 NAVC. I will gladly take the side of our pets who suffer from legalized neglect and abuse because they are property.
By the way, we do dentals for $150 for cats and $199 for dogs.

Thank-you , for being considerate of the price you charge .. Wish there was more like you .

So glad that our pets have an advocate like you!

P.S. I pay $45.00 for full dental on my dogs. Rural area where vets see more large animals via farm visits, and that is where most of their clientele come from.

Thank you for your service to our pets (family members).

In the big picture, this is an emotional discussion is about the Economics of Veterinary care. What it costs to supply it (education of vets, running the practice), the profit expected by the Vets, and the price the humans are willing to pay (what the market will bear). Simple. I fired my greedy vet practice and found a less extravagant but very experienced and kind Vet practice. I also laid out my principles that as much as I love my Pet, he's a pet, not my child, not a Guide dog, not a therapy dog for a wounded warrior. I conveyed up front to my vet I am not willing to pay for more than preventative care and pain relief if and when something major happens. I believe in euthanizing dogs before financing the Vets education. I believe also that the greedy Vets are fueling the problem of more abandoned dogs--which is a very cruel irony. Many families are in over their budget when it comes to their Pet Vet. So, People, just don't hand over your cash. And I'm sorry, but I've raised three different breed dogs in my life and none of them needed dental cleanings at the outrageous price. Feed the dogs hard kibble, give then hard Kongs to chew and voila, your dog's teeth will last! My final word is, until people can make the heart wrenching decisions not to pay for extraordinary care, Vets will prey on the emotions of the owners and recommend/perform expensive procedures, sell expensive food, and look for ways to generate more income. This is a free country, no one can take the money out of your pocket (except the government.

Silly me, I thought that "lack of PROFESSIONALISM" in veterinary medicine would refer to things such as not lying under oath, failing to repeat necessary labs, covering up for one another's mistakes, failing to monitor a patient who is exhibiting serious clinical symptoms, not posing as a specialist when you have not completed the necessary requirements, not stating (under oath) that you are "one publication away" from being a specialist when several years later, you STILL have not EARNED that title, failure to do all the necessary tests to arrive at a correct diagnosis.
Little did I know that the definition of "professionalism " in veterinary medicine, according to Dr. Coates, refers to her being charged more than she thinks is the fair amount.
In addition, I would worry about ANY vet who does not feel confident enough to "do a dental" on her own pet.
WOW, you never cease to amaze me, Dr. Coates.

I misspoke when I directed my comments to Dr. Coates and not Dr. Lee. However, given the nature of the content of this article, (and the one in which Dr. Lee mentioned euthanasia in the context of being "routine",) , she never ceases to amaze me either. So, we have Dr. Coates, who only sees some animals (cats excluded)as capable of love, and Dr. Lee, who feels that "lack of professionalism" equates to her not having gotten a "break" when it came to vet fees. Very sad commentary on the state of veterinary medicine today. And very sad commentary of what is important to many vets today, and it isn't quality of care. (my vet excluded)

Well, if not wanting to do dentals was one of the reason that you decided to become a specialist, I feel sorry for your patients. Routine care is the backbone of veterinary medicine. Judging by the content of this article, if you are honest with yourself and with those reading, I would say that your reason for becoming a specialist had more to do with financial gain and less to do with not wanting to do "routine" care.
And yes, I had some HORRIFIC experiences with "board certified" vets who worked at a speciality clinic (and posed as such) and didn't have the common sense that a twelve year old child would have. Yet, they still managed to become "board certified", just as you manage to whine about not getting the perks you think you deserve from your fellow "professionals. " Sad.

Dr. Lee, I am neither ignorant, nor impressed with you because you are a specialist.
The vet in question to whom I was referring did not even care enough about her patient to show her face until our dog was in critical condition. Nor did she notify us when she died in their care, with NO veterinarian present.
She said in court that she was 'one publication away' from being a specialist. Clearly, since that was a few years ago, she was not being truthful. Once again you are showing the world and your readers why many clients prefer "old school vets' to people like you, who are full of themselves, and who stand up for those who do indeed, lack professionalism.
I read your blog because I expected to find an intelligent article about the lack of professional ethics, lack of diagnostic skills, etc. I felt compelled to comment because your article demonstrated just how self serving you and many others like you are.
You are ONE of the reasons that we, the clients, do not like the direction that veterinary medicine is going.
As far as your comment on euthanasia, that was gleaned from the article in which you commented on the movie, "Marley and me" and in particular you mentioned that the scene in which Marley was euthanized did not move you. I do not have the time to waste looking up your exact quote. But it impressed me that a so called "healer" would in any way think that euthanisia was a routine occurence. If I am not mistaken, you did use the word 'routine" in your article. And I made the comment that when death becomes "routine", life is trivialized. I stand by my comment.
I had better things to do today than to respond to your most ignorant reply ...such as going to my wonderful allergist, who only charged me 52 dollars for an office visit, so put that in your mercenary pipe and smoke it. This man enabled me to be able to conquer my asthma with immunotherapy, as getting rid of our 19 and 13 year old cats, which Dr. Coates thinks are incapable of love, was not an option.
Your comments, once again, expose you for what you are. I have not judged you, you have judged yourself by exposing your TRUE motive for becoming a specialist, and then bit@@ing about the fact that your fellow vets didn't give you a "professional" discount. Perhaps your attitude of superiority and arrogance influenced their decision.

Right on !!! It does seem that there is no compassion there .

Wow - sort of feel like I am arriving after the party is over, but wanted to interject my 2 cents....or 3....

While discounts are a certainly a courtesy and an appreciated one at that - your reference to Target employees receiving a discount my indeed be spot on, but rest assured they do not offer a discount to Walmart employees. Discounts such as this should be intended for employees of the corporation itself, not the entire profession. I can only imagine the response I would get if I implied while checking that I was entitled to a discount because I too work in retail. Ain't gonna happen, and I would hope it would be likewise in any other profession. If you expect a discount, go to your employer for one, because that is where it is. If they don't offer dentals...so sorry, welcome to our world. Pay the mark up and deal with it.

Lastly - Dr. Lee, while you have certainly had a huge amount of comments to this post, and it is indeed a clearly emotional subject...I feel the need to point out that you are out of line. I would not be surprised if this were your last post on PetMD. Referring to a reader as "ignorant" is not something acceptable in this day and age. It is unprofessional and downright rude. While you have gotten your fair share of flaming on the topic of this post, you are above all a professional, and are representing PetMD as well as the veterinary practice as a whole. If you continue to be part of their team, I sincerely hope you will edit your thoughts before posting them here for all the world to read.

Best wishes...

Glad someone had the courage to say it! I myself will take this matter higher up and if PetMD does not take action, I WILL boycott this site.

Wow - sort of feel like I am arriving after the party is over, but wanted to interject my 2 cents....or 3....

While discounts are a certainly a courtesy and an appreciated one at that - your reference to Target employees receiving a discount my indeed be spot on, but rest assured they do not offer a discount to Walmart employees. Discounts such as this should be intended for employees of the corporation itself, not the entire profession. I can only imagine the response I would get if I implied while checking that I was entitled to a discount because I too work in retail. Ain't gonna happen, and I would hope it would be likewise in any other profession. If you expect a discount, go to your employer for one, because that is where it is. If they don't offer dentals...so sorry, welcome to our world. Pay the mark up and deal with it.

Lastly - Dr. Lee, while you have certainly had a huge amount of comments to this post, and it is indeed a clearly emotional subject...I feel the need to point out that you are out of line. I would not be surprised if this were your last post on PetMD. Referring to a reader as "ignorant" is not something acceptable in this day and age. It is unprofessional and downright rude. While you have gotten your fair share of flaming on the topic of this post, you are above all a professional, and are representing PetMD as well as the veterinary practice as a whole. If you continue to be part of their team, I sincerely hope you will edit your thoughts before posting them here for all the world to read.

Best wishes...

To Terri Sawyer Bass

I just saw this post after posting my own comment. I hate to monopolize the space, but I must say that I was troubled by your post. It is a false analogy to equate a veterinary (or medical) practice with Wal-Mart or Target. If it is simply a business, than all ethical arguments are irrelevant, and profit is all. I would say, along with others, that veterinary care, along with human health care, is an intrinsic good, a profession rather than a business. I suppose I could write a book on this. I don't want to attempt that here and now. Those who work with the sick and dying are a particular community, different from those who just buy and sell. Not there is anything wrong with buying and selling. It is just a different world. It is disappointing to see this community threatened.

If we allow ourselves to be submerged in this world of business, all of those ethics will disappear. But without business how do we survive? So, we make a few compromises. With each compromise we hurt ourselves, until we see people like you berating us for not being just like the retail world. So where do we go from here?

I don't feel that, in general, medical practitioners of any sort ought to be in the retail food and drug business. There are a few exceptions. For example, dermatologists may make up their own preparations and sell them to patients. It is obviously sensible for vets to dispense meds or special foods. I suppose vets could sell other pet supplies as well but it would make no business sense for vets to compete with with the big chains in this. I have no problem at all with vets taking a modest markup on prescription foods or drugs. Someone has to do the ordering and managing of inventory. That should be paid for. I would not continue to take my animals to a vet I thought was gouging on this. Excessive profits imply a conflict of interest, obviously.

I feel Dr. Lee has taken undeserved flak after this post.

The other day I took my old, sick cat in to my vet, whom I have gone to for years. This is one of a number of visits. I paid a bill that I thought was most reasonable. When I got home and actually examined the itemized statement I realized I had been given a discount. The amount would have been reasonable even in full. Two years ago the same vet presented a bill after surgery that was less than the pre-operative statement, which I had paid 50% of in advance. Not a word has ever been said about discounts. I really like and admire this vet, and recommend other patients; my decisions in this are based on quality and ethics, not on price. This blog has mentioned some incidents I find outrageous; these matters need to be discussed.

There is a huge market for Vet care and Pet supplies--look at the abundance of Pet Smarts, PETCO. Care a lots , Doctor Foster, on-line pet supplies and on and on. There is a feeding frenzy on pet parent dollars. Meanwhile, Pet insurance is a burgeoning business. How can we really be so "shocked" when Vets strategize to tap into what appears to be a lot of money spent on American pets. My favorite (link below) is the Vet conference that offers seminars on how to increase revenue--especially by "taking advantage of bonded long term relationships"! You can't make up stuff like this.

Veterinarian Associations and Conferences preach ways to “increase revenue”… “how to make the most of bonded relationships”….

From seminar ....

"Find out how to promote twice-a-year exams and senior diagnostics that increase the length and quality of patients’ lives while also boosting practice revenue. Senior cat owners are often highly bonded to the practice team, so learn how to make the most of these relationships."

http://vetmeetings.com/kittyhawk/index.htm

http://smallbiztrends.com/2010/01/pet-industry-trends-for-2010.html

Pet insurance continues to move towards the mainstream
We estimate the size of the US pet insurance market to be $332 million in premium in 2009, up from approximately $272 million in 2009 (a 22% increase) and I expect it to reach $400 million in 2010. We project that the market will grow to $600 million in 2013. There are 10 pet insurance companies in the US selling under 14 brands. The pet insurance market is seeing an increase in interest from private equity investors looking to get in early on the huge market potential. It remains to be seen if any of them open their check books in 2010 though.

Lack of professionalism to me includes bait and switch advertisement, stealing clients ( James Herriot would not see the client of another practice without permission), claiming to be superior to another veterinarian, using the human animal bond to encourage pet parents to spend ever increasing sums for veterinary care while working to maintain the property status of pets, using untrained staff to perform the care which requires professional training, and ownership of practices by corporate entities which place the profit motive above care. It is a different practice environment than it was in 1979, and not a better one. The profession needs to decide, are our pets property, which makes us seen self serving and hypocritical and injures our status in the eyes of the public, or are they FAMILY! Why are you silent on this issue Dr Lee, and why will the profession not have an intelligent discussion at the 2013 NAVC?

Dr. Lee need to set up her practice in a Target store, and she also needs to stop patting herself on the back for being the "most read" blog. She is not wise enough to know that it is not the quality of the article that is attracting readers, but the fact that she is railing about not getting a professional "discount" and actually thinking that we, the bread and butter of the veterinary profession, will have any sympathy for her. Her comments never cease to amaze those of us who do not like the direction that veterianary medicine is taking and see her as part of the problem, not part of the solution.
On the other hand, you have a vet like Dr. Ken, who is not only standing up for our pets, but braving the ire of his entire profession, to do what is right.
You have a vet like Dr. Kay, (author of "Speaking for Spot), who writes intelligent and very helpful blogs and has the courage to consider the wisdom of Gracie's Law.
Quite a contrast and a lesson in humility and grace. (no pun intended Dr. Ken, but Gracie would be proud of you, and so are those of us who consider and TREAT our pets as family. And, as an addendum, it's no accident, I feel, that both Dr. Ken and Dr. Kay have been in practice for over 30 years. The changing of the guard is not one that is beneficial to our pets, or to their family members.

Buyerbeware, thanks for the tips on better Vet blogs!

A little more on the economics of Vet Care versus Idealism & compassion in Vet Med.
Doc Justine graduated from Cornell University, New York. My vet graduated from Purdue University, Indiana. I'm from the midwest and graduated from the University of Illinois (BA and MA) when tuition was on par with Iowa and Indiana (but now Illinois is bankrupt because of public pension costs, and public welfare (Chicago). I paid for my degrees by working and taking out a $10,000 loan for graduate school. Compare to the costs of education today.
Doc Lee, seems the pressure of the Cornell in-state costs (over three times the cost of Iowa State Vet school) may be affecting your expectations.

COST OF VET EDUCATION

IOWA STATE: $8728 in state, $20,000 out of state

http://www.registrar.iastate.edu/fees/


PURDUE: $9,900 in-state, $28,000 out of state

http://www.purdue.edu/dfa/all/cost1213.php

http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/general/2012/120330TownsendEyeExam.html

CORNELL UNIVERSITY: $29,400 New York Resident, Non resident $44,250

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/financialaid/CostOfAttendance.cfm

Wow! So the cost of school depends on where you go ! So, Why not get the education from a school that cost less , so you can give your patients a better deal ?( and not have such a debit to pay) And if everyone did this , the high priced schools would have to lower their cost ....Which in turn would make it , so Vets dont have to charge so much !!!!----- Sounds like a plan !!

This comment has been flagged as inappropriate.

6. Do you honestly think that an MD who beat to death a patient, as has been done by some vets, could still hold a license to practice medicine? Yet, this has been done on more than one occassion, and those responsible for the death of their patient at their own malicious hands, are still able to practice veterinary medicine.

My experiences over the last 25 years have been similar, caring MD's but recently, a horrific Vet experience with NO accountability. I've said enough here without even telling the most horrific story of greend and cold heartedness from the VET orthopedic specialist! Beyond. BTW, my old school vet, general surgeon, did call me after my boy's 'with complications" chryptorchid surgery. Otherwise, I concur that my MD experiences (pediatricians, internists, allergist, OB) have been far and away more compassionate, more competent and more accountable-- and I never have begrudged them their fees. As a matter of fact, I prefer to see my internist 'outside of the insurance contract" just so I can pay her more than her insurance reimbursement. I pay directly, her 1990 fees. I beg her not to retire.

When my father was alive, he had to have a bone marrow Bx , and the physican actually allowed and ENCOURAGED my mother and I to sit in the procedure room with my father to help to allay my father's fears. In the specialty clinic, our dog was never examined in our presence, and she was "whisked" away to the back, where we had no idea what was going on, nor could we ask any questions nor point out anything that we felt might have been missed, or needed more attention, during the exam.

The only vet that I can honestly say who has treated me as a member of his family is Dr. Ken. Even though he has never treated either of our babies, we have a common bond in the loss of our beloved pet kids, Gracie and Peach.
He knows what is like to experience that kind of loss, and he is courageous to take on his entire profession in order to do what is right. His goal was the same as our goal in court...to see that the human/animal bond is recognized in a court of law and that companion animals, even cats, Dr. Coates, have intrinsic value. Yes, Dr. Lee, I know that you wrote this article, but if was Dr. Coates very uncompassionate and inaccurate statements about cats that prompted another firestorm from the readers of her blog.

Dr. Lee said, "
"As a veterinarian, I’m not the type to read a lot of animal books. After all, I live it. When Marley and Me came out, people raved about how I should read this best seller. As an avid reader, I wasn’t wowed — I gave it 2 out of 5 stars (After all, who wants to see a poorly behaved dog getting so much positive feedback?). Besides which, we veterinarians are used to euthanizing (sounds harsh, but true), so it wasn’t quite the tear-jerker everyone made it out to be … at least for a veterinarian."




Clearly, these comments have been censored, as my earlier comment regarding when death becomes "routine", life is trivialized, has been removed.

Here are the only comments left on the site that can be attributed to me (below link)



http://www.petmd.com/blogs/thedailyvet/jlee/2011/nov/celebrating_thanksgiving_with_your_pet









Dr. Lee, while I appreciate the fact that vets "euthanize often", and that in order to do your job or the job of a physician, one has to become somewhat "calloused" when it comes to the subject of death, I guess that I was somewhat shocked by your comment. I can only give you an example from theHospice nurses, who cared for my father with such love and compassion. One would never have known that they see death every day, as the way in which they handled my father with such love, and which they ministered to us with such compassion, was truly something to behold. Or I could use the example of our vet of 15 years, (now deceased), who cried with me when he gave me the news that one of our cats was terminal. When death becomes "routine", whether it's a physician or a doctor, life becomes trivialized. I know that you may not agree with my position, and since I am not a doctor, nurse, or vet, you may find me "out of line" to make a comment about this subject. I am only trying to help you to see things from the point of view of the person who loses their loved one. However, I do appreciate your candor, even though I was rather shocked by the comment and the way in which it was worded.
Now, to the subject of how we should express our thankfulness for our four legged family members. I believe that too many people are only cognizant of being thankfulfor their family members on "special
occasions...birthdays, Christmas, anniversaries, and yes, Thanksgiving. I think that all of us, myself included, should pay more attention to our pets on a daily and realize, not just on special occasions, but ALWAYS, how much joy they bring to our lives. When you arrive home from a busy day, put the groceries on the counter for a few minutes and pay some much deserved attention to your cat or your dog. Less computer time, more time playing, petting, walking with them (for the doggies), and allowing them to sit on your lap without interruption....these are just some of the ways that I will try to be even more mindful of how grateful I am for our beloved animals companions.
And Dr. Lee, I hope that I have not offended you by my comments, just attempting to show you another point of view.

Dr. Lee, after reading your latest article, my husband and I have decided once and for all that when our beloved cats pass from this world, we will no longer have any pets.
Our reasons are as follows.
1. Our vet is in his 60's. Although I love him and feel that he delivers very good care, as do his techs, his fees have risen. I reiterate that I pay more for our cats' labs than I do for my own.
When he retires, I would NEVER trust another vet (unless it were Dr. Ken, or the son of a friend who is a young vet, but one with scruples and intelligence).
3. With the cost of gas, food , medical bills, rent, housing, etc, fewer and fewer people will be able to afford veterinary care. Vets will have to make up the difference (as I feel some are doing now) by charging their most loyal clients more.
4. We are getting older, and when we pass, if we were to precede our pets in death, there is no one who would care for them as we do.
5. And last but not least, after our experience in court, I lost a great deal of respect for the profession as a whole. Watching vets lie for each other, watching them sit by while I was insulted and mocked by opposing counsel,watching them flounder and ignore the most obvious signs of serious illness I have no respect for the profession as a whole. I will not choose to give my money to a group of people for whom I have no respect. I will instead, continue to donate to our local rescue organization, as that DIRECTLY benefits animals.

Thank you, Dr. Lee, for solidifying our decision. I read your article to my husband and he was just as appalled as I am. You have done us a great service by further revealing the "state" of your profession and the future direction in which it is, sadly, going.

Caveat emptor, i agree with your conclusions. How can we take on more Pet responsibilities when so few Vets are truly compassionate and affordable?

My son, when he was in Boy Scouts, used to walk dogs for seniors who could no longer give their pets enough exercise. We ultimately adopted one of the dogs my son walked when the dear dog's 90 year old owner passed. You will love this next part though... our most kind and competent Vet helped me care for the dog (Sugar) until the Bouvier was 11 years old, then when dear Sugar started showing signs of lameness, old age and possibly cancer the Vet actually said, "I've known Bob (the deceased owner) for over 25 years and he would not want to see Sugar kept alive for the sake of his (elderly Bob's) memory. It's ok to put her down now. I cried as much for the last 'part of Bob" as I did for the relief offered me and kindness shown by the Vet. Truly and amazing Vet--and few and far between.

Desmond's Mom...what a moving story about your son's (and your) kindness, and the compassion of your wonderful vet as well. You are clearly a wonderful person who raised her son with the right values, and that doggie benefitted by that, as well as from the love and care from your Vet.
My husband and I were truly toying with the idea of adopting a senior dog when our babies pass, but given the articles that I have read of late, as well as our past experiences, we have changed our minds and will stick by our decision. It is a sad day when those who love animals as much as we do have to come to a decision like that. But in truth, I think it is the wisest path for us, given the direction of veterinary medicine today.
If we lived closer to Dr. Ken, I would be honored to have him care for any future pets, but that will not happen, so we must , sadly, stick by our decision, solidified tonight by our discussion of Dr. Lee's article.

Dr. Ken may not exactly be McDonald's, but there are many other good vets out there. I have one, actually two, as it is a shared practice. I know of others. I can't understand someone who loves animals giving up on having any because of "the state of vet care". Not when you can go to the shelter or the Humane Society and find animals in desperate need of a good home. So many will be put down if no homes can be found for them. It seems just a bit histrionic. I doubt you would swear to never see an MD again because of the state of medical care. Also, I wish that if people want to spend days sending each other sniping and self-indulgent posts, they would find a way to back-channel each other.

The last I heard, it was actually more difficult to get into vet school than med school, so I would assume that those who chose the former really wanted to be vets rather than make more money in human medicine. Perhaps I am being naive. Perhaps the marketplace corrupts. As for hospice care, I was at one time volunteering for a hospice. The perturbed spouse of a hospice patient showed me a monthly statement. I was horrified at the overcharging and bill padding. The family was paying next to nothing; it was all taken care of by Medicare plus insurance. I actually wrote a letter to Medicare but received no answer. Looking at corporate scene in combination with the big insurance companies, it is not hard to see why healthcare costs are so outrageous. I expect the veterinary world is being caught up in this.

I was once a 4H member, riding my beloved horse (owned by a very wealthy midwestern cattle rancher). I wanted to be a vet simply because I loved animals and most of my nurturing 'care" was with animals--my horses and my dogs (including experience breeding and delivering puppies and foals. I had no concept of the money. However, knowing what most applicants to Vet or Med school must know today, in human medicine, the hours are long, their professional judgement relentlessly second guessed by insurers, and accountability (spelled) threats of malpractice and costs of protecting oneself is HUGE and in no way can be compared to the almost complete absence of accountability in Vet Medicine.

This comment has been flagged as inappropriate.

This comment has been flagged as inappropriate.