I guess you buy commercial chicken for dinner, now, and keep yours for laying. What effect do drugs like 'fatal-plus' have on the edibility of animals?

I feel sick just reading this topic! WTH??? Am I the only one who has ever seen a chicken have it's head whacked off with an axe/hatchet, and watch the headless body run aound...and not be totally traumatized forever by that experience?

So you have been "wringing" your chicken's necks to kill them?
And you want us to tell you what you should do now, given the inhumane death your chickens have endured? Hmmmm.....I know you are smarter than that...you don't need our input.

I'm a big fan of your column, but have to question the purpose/shock value of this topic. Ugh.

I'm right there with you. I was probably 8 or 9 years old. I had seen the chickens kept in these small pens barely able to maneuver for several months. This alone caused me agony, but then the day of slaughter came. My grandmother wanted me to watch so I would know how to do this when my time came to bully innocent animals. It took 2 or 3 axe choppings to get the first head off. I don't know exactly because I was screaming at that point. When the chicken starting running circles around the chopping block with no head, then I decided I didn't want anything to do with this - I also received considerable beratings from most members of the family for not chowing down on the carcasses at the family reunion. Needless to say, I didn't eat much for several weeks after this.

This is a subject that also concerns me, as a veterinarian and chicken owner. I read up about it some months ago, and I came across a letter in the Vet Record (Veterinary Record 2009;164:220 doi:10.1136/vr.164.7.220)"Methods for dispatching backyard poultry" by Charles Mason, Jade Spence, Liz Bilbe, Tony Hughes and James Kirkwood. They expressed exactly the same concerns as yourself re: humanity of neck pulling.
They mention a cartridge-operated device (Cash Poultry Killer; Accles & Shelvoke) that applies a severe blow to the bird's skull to render it immediately unconscious. When applied correctly the blow will kill the bird. Used correctly, this is a reliable, humane method and is more effective at reducing brain activity than cervical dislocation or neck crushing.
Here's the link to it: http://www.acclesandshelvoke.co.uk/index.asp?id=10&p=9

I think humane should only be applied if you are willing to do the procedure to your children. If not, then it is NOT humane. One wonders how much "human" is actually in "humane."

Fatal Plus and other euthanasia solutions remain in the body after death, rendering the meat unfit for consumption.

Remember some other things:
-when the spinal column is cut, nerve impulses can't travel up and down it, so the sensation on 'pain' isn't happening.
- even when we euthanized with fatal plus and then do a necropsy, there is still electrical activity in the heart and other organs, which , while freaky, doesn't mean the animal isn't still dead.
- same thing with nerves. Remember dropping horses in veg school and having to watch out for the back leg that can still develop a wallop of a kick over half N hour after death?
- I also recommend going back and reading the sources that were 'Summarized' by this author. He didn't do any of his own research. The Cartner/Barlow one is very good.

I want to know more about this too....because I do my own chickens. I am currently out of the meat rabbit raising business (for personal use) but am considering getting back into it because of the economy as well as a better source of meat that doesn't contain stuff other than meat (hormones, etc). Previously I used a 22 pistol and shot them at point blank range in the back of the head while holding them prone on the ground facing away from me. They didn't struggle and there was very little after death movement so it seemed very much that the death was instantaneous. But it would be real hard to use this method with chickens. I appreciate 4ikiti's post and will be looking up the references. I do believe that animals can be humanely raised and used for food (our pets eat meat after all and they don't even kill very humanely) And if you have ever read many stories of people who have been attacked by bears, or mountain lions, they most always indicate that while the adrenalin is flowing they don't feel the pain of what is happening immediately. It is only if the attack is really prolonged or afterward that the pain comes crashing down.... and they are still alive. So maybe the chickens have the same experience and they are dead before the pain would come crashing down. I certainly hope so. But the head chopping or neck wringing can't be any worse than what a chicken goes through when a possum or fox gets hold of them and if you live in the country that is going to happen occasionally.
PS Dr Khuly, I like your weird posts because you bring up things that should be thought about. Hiding away from this kind of stuff doesn't make it disappear. It just makes you ignorant of some things

The only thing you can do is keep your chickens for egg producing and either buy your meat at the store or become a vegetarian.

I don't think you can continue killing your chickens knowing you are causing them pain.

That's right! Meat that comes on foam trays was never an animal, and certainly NEVER suffered for weeks or months as a widget in a factory!

Sick, as a kid my mom, had no problem, doing this......She said God made chichen to eat, So get over it. Well I NEVER GOT OVER IT. Yet I love chichen......So I gress I am, the sick-o...lol

Try soy chicken - it has the same texture and flavor and none of the guilt!

Go vegan, Patty! When I move back to Florida, I plan to have a chicken coop - but for eggs only. I was traumatized by seeing a chicken with it's head cut off at about the age of 4. That sight has stuck with me for 58 years! It was painful for me and the chicken :(

The writer Robert Olen Butler published a book of short stories called SEVERANCE. Each story (max 240 words) is narrated by a just decapitated head in the 90 seconds before the brain dies. I am NOT making this up - check Amazon. As interesting as this premise is, I haven't read this book because I am genuinely afraid it will haunt my dreams. As this column will.

My understanding is male chicks are killed at birth, tossed alive into grinders.

They do not lay eggs and do not grow large enough for their meat alone.

Thus, eating eggs is not harmless.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/01/national/main5279295.shtml

Love the fact that you dare to approach subjects that most of us wonder about (for about 5 seconds before we make it go away) and are afraid to ask. I recently had a conversation with someone who raises pigs for food and, to my horror, he relayed the same shot to the head method of instantaneous death. I will look forward to hearing what your further thoughts are on the subject of your chickens....The problem I am having is thinking now about all of the beheaded human stories both historically and in more recent news. I have always feared that there was a period of consciousness and it appears that research has now confirmed my darkest fears. This might last longer than 5 seconds thought..
Patricia Moore
http://www.soft-hearted.com

No, not harmless.. Which is why I realized that ova-lacto vegetarianism wasn't exactly good enough. I'd rather eat broilers who only have to suffer the stress of 42 days.

Argon gas is another option. Absolutely painless but possibly stressful as some studies dispute that this "ultimate humane choice" as championed in Europe is as perfect as all that. I am looking into building a chamber, though.

Btw, that was "ovo-lacto". Damn iPad. ;-)

I'm with GrandCynth! The title would have been eye catching without the cheesy Queen of Hearts quote. C'mon Doc. Here's a thought: Go vegetarian. It's healthier for you, other living creatures, and the planet. If I could never look the source in the eye and take its life, I can't bring myself to eat the end product.

I am certainly no veterinarian or in any medical profession, however I can think of a few alternatives that may or may not be suitable. First off I would advise if none of these, then I suggest you look for other options as I'm sure you are/will. Poisonous gases are one option. There are quite a few and you could make a gas chamber of sorts. It may not be instantaneous but some of them would not cause any pain. You could also euthenize them using the same method as dogs/cats. The third option would be to suffocate the chicken. Not choke it, but put it in an air-tight box for example and just let the chicken die on its own from lack of air. I apologize if any of these seem inhumane, but killing an animal will always seem inhumane. You could always use that electric baton thing... it sounds pretty fun actually if it didn't kill people, it would make a great party toy. Anyway, I'd also like to respond to happypetmom's response. She suggests going vegetarian. I've been there and while at first you think you're doing good, think of it from a few other stand-points. You're eating precious plants that give us oxygen. If you're eating soy and what-not that were farmed, you may not be depriving us of oxygen, but you're certainly depriving yourself of tasty tasty meat. Gravy doesn't go good with most tofu foods or soy foods and all veggies seems rather bland. There are some important vitamins and supplements in meat that are hard to find in vegetables, that's why people started eating meat! I advise against going vegetarian. I hope you find a painless method Dr. Khuly, and soon.

Every living multicellular creature is going to die. Most of those deaths are going to involve pain (in those capable of experiencing pain). For that matter, most of their lives are going to involve pain, for a life without any pain is not much of a life. For some reason, this society in which we exist has decided death and pain are bad, and to be avoided (often at any cost). This doesn’t mean the opposite is true, however. Death and pain are simply an integral part of life. For us to look at the topic is far from simple, however.

This doesn’t mean I believe those of us who keep other animals should inflict pain or cause death without thought. To be truly humane, we should try to *alleviate* the pain our charges experience, whether or not we are the cause. This means to lighten the pain, i.e. less pain and/or pain for a shorter time period, not necessarily to make something totally painless – i.e. no pain. As humans, we can and should weigh the consequences of our actions, and it is we who then add the labels good and bad, better and worse. By raising livestock and poultry, and by killing some of them to provide our sustenance, we allow them as a group to continue to live.

Is it “better” for humans to eat meat, or go vegan and for most domesticated species to disappear from the earth? Is it “worse” to cause a disembodied chicken head a few seconds of intense pain, or to cause other, perhaps more far reaching, results by trying to completely eliminate that pain?

Turning to the practical, if the main concern is to end the home-slaughtered chicken’s suffering/brain waves, wouldn’t a sledge hammer to the head, immediately following decapitation or cervical dislocation accomplish this and limit said suffering to a second or two?

"My understanding is male chicks are killed at birth, tossed alive into grinders.

They do not lay eggs and do not grow large enough for their meat alone."

Eating roosters is what is traditionally done with them. And unless you are scoping them, you can't tell hens from roosters until they start to grow up. So if someone is routinely tossing live new-born chicks into grinders, it's not because male chicks aren't worth raising.

And while I'm sure someone, somewhere has "documented" live chicks being tossed into grinders, I do seriously doubt that it's happening routinely.

@ Ellis

So you think this video is a con job?


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/01/national/main5279295.shtml

oh here is the video.

guess cbs did not want to show it, for some reason.

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/hatchery/

@ realist52

This question you posed is surreal:

Is it “better” for humans to eat meat, or go vegan and for most domesticated species to disappear from the earth?

Yeah, CBS is so eager to suppress the video that they provide the same link to it on Mercy for Animals' website that you do.

And I certainly don't take MFA's unsupported word for much of anything, considering that their position is that there should be no egg consumption at all by anyone. Groups whose goal is promoting an extremist position--in this case, strict veganism for everyone--are not the best source of information, I've found. Because they are, in their own minds, on the side of the angels, they believe anything they do to promote what they see as "good," must be justified.

And I don't know what you find so "surreal" about realist52's question. Most domestic species would not exist in the first place without the human consumption of meat, milk, and eggs, and they would cease to exist in fairly short order, if we all ceased to do those things.

Cats and dogs, of course, are the exceptions; we'd still need cats to protect the granaries, and dogs do many other jobs now.

But of course, we'd still need meat to feed them, and if we stopped all meat production, they'd die out, too.

Dogs can easily be vegan, and cats can too if done with care. No its not "natural" but neither is living in a house with people, so why cause pain and death to other living beings when we don't need to?

Also, many people seem to think that the purpose humans breed animals for makes their killing ok. If you were born a slave would that make it ok for you to be abused or killed by your "owner?"

The package an animal comes in or the purpose we think they serve makes no difference. Killing them or causing them pain and suffering is universally wrong. We have learned this, for the most part, when it comes to other humans. How many more individuals have to suffer and die before humans learn that non-human animals have the same rights to live and love and experience life free from oppression as we do?

@ Ellis

You sound incoherent. You are claiming the video was in fact faked? The company did not protest its accuracy for what reason?

And as a vegetarian, the notion that people like me are going to eradicate domestic pets is surreal. My dogs eat meat, I don't.

What is your point?

If we don't raise and kill animals for meat, where are you going to get meat to feed your dog?

That question might be better posed to someone who advocates no more livestock.

Still curious about your claims that:

1- The chick industry does not grind up baby male chicks, and
2- Humans not eating meat somehow presages the eradication of domestic pets.

A minor point - this article was actually published in the Commentary section of the JAVMA, so did not undergo the peer review process.

I think, as pete w mentioned, captive-bolting is probably the most humane way to dispatch poultry. Price and firearm ownership are two steep hurdles for the average backyard chicken owner, so I'm not sure how practical captive-bolting is in these situations.

While it seems a little gruesome, i found this post really fascinating and i felt like i learned a lot, espcially as i one day hope to own chickens (for eggs mostly, but you never know!)

One thing i wanted to mention- a vegetarian or vegan diet is not 100% cruelty free (unless you're growing all your food yourself). Millions of small animals and birds are killed during harvesting or soy and other vegetables and fruits.

I'm siding towards this method, especially since I've seen this done to cattle and felt that death was immediate--like an electrified bullet to the head. I especially like that I can buy this device in a size adequate fir chickens at my local hardware store. Bonus.

"I especially like that I can buy this device in a size adequate fir chickens at my local hardware store"

To what are you referring?

Not an idle inquiry.

It's what Pete mentioned:
http://www.acclesandshelvoke.co.uk/index.asp?id=10&p=9

It's an air-powered stun gun. Like a cross between a 22 and a staple gun, but smaller. I'd think you'd still want to "cone" or cradle the animal's neck in block as for decapitation, but the dispatch would be much more immediate. It serves the exact same function, pathologically-speaking, as the standard captive bolt device used in larger animals.

And yes, I know you have no mere fleeting interest in this topic, HH. Happy turkey day!

This is interesting to me in that it raises the question "how much suffering is too much?" 29 seconds of pain is too much? How about 15 seconds? 5 seconds? 1 second?

I think if you choose to eat meat, you'll invariably be responsible for *some* suffering. I'm a vegetarian, but somewhat strangely this 30 seconds of pain is not much of an issue for me. Arguably, all animals (myself included) experience some degree of suffering in their lives, or at the end. What I find far more unacceptable is the entire life (short, for broilers, I know) of neglect, lack of respect, lack of socialization, physical pain, and emotional stress that so many animals suffer.

I know *you* aren't raising animals like that, and I think it's great that you take this so seriously that you've found an alternate means of euthanasia for your birds. Thanks for the interesting topic.

Many years ago I had to raise much of the food for myself and my young son. Loving animals and having a conscience I had to find a way to kill chickens that was fast and as painless as possible. I tried using either, which worked, but got into the meat making them uneatable. I found that if I turned them gently upside down they didn’t fuss. I could hit them hard at the base of the skull with flat part at the back of the axe stunning them. I would quickly decapitate them. Since they were very stunned I don’t believe they had much consciousness before death.

Dr. Temple Grandin has designed slaughter houses that cause the minimum amount of fear and suffering. The question for the industry is now that we have this knowledge, why aren't more companies using it?

As a vegetarian I know that I will not have a perfect record of avoiding animal pain and suffering in the production of my food...but I try to make the best choices I can. As a pet owner I know animals die so my cats can eat. My husband is not a vegetarian...he likes steak and bacon and so I know animals suffer for his dinner...but what this article started me thinking about was not just vegetarianism v meat eating...but how we look at and deal with death...and life. Food production animals often live a life of deprivation, hardship, pain, suffering and inhumanity. They often suffer deaths full of fear and pain. And yet we still eat meat. (We do not need to by the way...you can get all the nutrients you need and be healthy and happy as a vegetarian). We are a species that would rather see incurably ill and pain ridden people suffer through a ‘natural’ end than see them die with the dignity and relief offered by euthanasia...something we lovingly and carefully offer to our pets and companion animals. We offer a supposed humane death to the animals we eat and yet the more that is known about these methods the more we realize that what we are offering them is pain and suffering unimaginable to us. We look at living, breathing, feeling creatures...animals who feel emotion and pain and we do nothing to research and develop ways to make their end less fearful and painful. Which is why more articles like this one need to be written and talked about and thought deeply about. Why should a chicken die more painfully and horribly than my cat? Why should Aunt Amy die so slowly and painfully when we have the means to help her if that is what she wants? We do not have any consistent attitude to life or death and we really need to, to evolve as a species, morally and ethically. If we are to continue raising food animals, does it not fall to us to make their lives and their deaths as humane as possible. So thank you for the column. And please do keep people thinking about animal welfare...all animals...not just pets. I hope the research into more humane methods continues and is actually applied to real life.