No Doctor should give unknowm Meds. Stick to your Guns.

For the client to bring their own vaccines is like someone bringing in their own pizza dough for me to make them a pizza. You were much kinder then I would have been.

You were completely right. Even if your client handled the vaccines correctly who knows if the anomenous seller did. For this very reason, I would never have my cats vaccinated by an unknown vet.

I agree with your position. If the client wants to vaccinate their own animal, fine with me. I'll be glad to do the exam, worm-and heartworm check, and let the owner give the vaccine at home.

However, we explain to the client our pricing structure which offers a "package deal", effectively charging less for the complete exam/testing with the vaccine than for the exam with separate testing.

I can and will not take responsibility for vaccines with unknown sources or handling history, since the client tends to hold us accountable for anything that goes wrong with the pet within a few weeks of vaccination. (my favorite is the dog that "was never right since you gave that 'Provo' shot", which the owner's wife unwittingly poisened with antifreeze-laden meatloaf meant to kill the armadillos under the house - but that is another story)

That seems very tacky. I am all for saving money but that feels like buying cheap ingredients to a fancy restaurant and then expecting the chef to cook them. If you are intrepid enough to buy your own vaccines, then be intrepid enough to adminster them yourself as well.

>>that feels like buying cheap ingredients to a fancy restaurant and then expecting the chef to cook them>>

LOL! One of my closest friends is a chef, and if anyone ever presumed to tell her how to do her job, she'd probably look the other way while the kitchen staff spit in the soup.

>>If you are intrepid enough to buy your own vaccines, then be intrepid enough to adminster them yourself as well.>>

Exactly. Any questions? Call the company that sold the vaccines. Complications? I'll treat (and charge appropriately), but don't expect the company that actually manufactured the vaccine to pay for any treatment, even though many manufacturers will cover the cost of treating when the product is administered by a veterinarian.

Clients have been known to present me with all sorts of products, especially those meant to be given intravenously. I generally decline unless the drug came directly from a referral hospital, and in those cases I charge an administration fee.

One disaster I saw involved an intranasal (up the nose) product given intramuscularly. What a mess.

I love taking these type things and relating them to something totally different. Today, my example is my Honda CR-V. Now this is not an endorsement of Honda. If you prefer another brand, just substitute it below.

If you own a Honda car that uses a timing belt, you MUST change that belt periodically as per the owner's manual. If you don't, it can break and cause catastrophic engine damage. It's an expensive proposition. Now, if you get it done at "joe blows" shop, and the belt fails, there is a p**sing contest as to who's at fault, the belt or the installation.

Problem is solved, however, if for a few dollars more, you have the maintenance action performed at a Honda dealer and there is a failure, the discussion doesn't take place. Honda is Honda, the provider of the belt AND the mechanic AND the service center.

To go somewhere else is penny wise and pound foolish. Same goes with vaccines. No questions when I go to the vet, have the vet use his/her clinic and clinic's provided vaccine.

Seems so simple, eh?

I agree.
Just to be the devil's advocate for a moment - if you have a friend who is a lawyer, you could have them draw up an informed consent and release of liability which, if the client will sign, you will perform the vaccination and be off the hook for any complications.

I don't recommend it, though. Your solution may involve an argument at the beginning, but that's the last word. Once you give the shot, even with a legal document, the arguments can still take a while to resolve, and cost money. Even nuisance lawsuits take a while to get rid of. But if you really wanted to accommodate those clients, that would be the way to do it.

Way to stick up for yourself!

The biggest problem I see is lack of cohesiveness in clinic policy, I agree with Dr K's protocol, but I think in something like this, there should be a consistent policy among all the doctors. This can be a source of confusion among both clients and staff. In the least the receptionists should know not to make these kind of apointments for doctors that do not give OTC vacciens.

Hi I'm new to this and I need help. I have this kitten that her left eye won't blink and she would have her head lean left. I thought maybe something was in her ear till I notice her eyes.

Her right eye will blink but her left eye won't blink but the white tissue will cover her eye when she blink.

Help.

Hobson, You are right on point. A big problem here is the lack of agreement which makes someone look bad, causes confusion and is irritating to all concerned.

Obviously this isn't a "cost-saver" because the money isn't in the vaccine itself, but the checkup & administration of it. Personally, it makes no sense to me unless: there is a preference of manufacturer OR the components of the vaccines offered.

If that is the case, I would suggest the order go directly to the clinic to insure its proper handling & delivery, and storage until the appointment is made.

Seems like a good compromise? Or perhaps, the clinic can place the "special order".

Many humans are fussy and reluctant to receive certain brand prescriptions or generics, why would they want less for their pets?

Kitten: Get the kitten to a vet. No one unfortunately can diagnose a cat over the internet; you'll be glad you went if it turns out to be something serious.

Dr. K: Sounds good to me. It's a veterinary practice, not a pot luck.

>>Obviously this isn't a "cost-saver" because the money isn't in the vaccine itself, but the checkup & administration of it>>

I gathered from the client's comment ("I guess you’re just like all those other vets that care more about the money than their patients.") that the other veterinarians don't charge for administering BYO. I also gathered from Dr. Khuly's explanation that she wouldn't administer BYO for reasons other than money (reactions, efficacy, safety, etc.). Her reasons happen to be the same as mine.

>>Personally, it makes no sense to me unless: there is a preference of manufacturer OR the components of the vaccines offered.>>

Many veterinarians prefer certain manufacturers or vaccine components, too. There are certain products I avoid entirely, and I explain why to clients who ask.

>>If that is the case, I would suggest the order go directly to the clinic to insure its proper handling & delivery, and storage until the appointment is made.>>

Veterinarians don't order vaccine from catalogues or the Internet. Doctor Whosit's Veterinary Supply et al does NOT sell to veterinarians (and our suppliers don't sell to lay persons). When owners order their own vaccines, I'm concerned about vaccine handling in Doctor Whosit's warehouse BEFORE the vaccine arrives, too.

>>Many humans are fussy and reluctant to receive certain brand prescriptions or generics, why would they want less for their pets?>>

That's insulting. What I recommend for all of my clients' horses is what I use on my OWN horse. In my opinion, it's not "less" in any way.

The first thing that came to my mind of the above retort:
"You can lead a horse to water but cannot make him drink"

Pharmaceuticals, including vaccines go on to and come off the market every day. Not long ago, an equine vaccine was withdrawn, a year ago, Teva Pharma was closed down by the FDA.

I suggested none of your interpretations. However, if I were a medical professional, which I am NOT: I would never be so bold as to suggest that the pharmaceutical (including the withdrawn: heparin, propofol, and insulin) was the "one sole agent" that is 99.9% adverse-free, because it would be that ONE time, you got "shot or horse-stomped on the foot"

>>Pharmaceuticals, including vaccines go on to and come off the market every day. Not long ago, an equine vaccine was withdrawn...>>

Sure. I, like all of my equine veterinary friends, heard about this well before this information was released to the public. The listservs for veterinarians only to which I belong sounded the alarm; my primary supplier called me, personally and I received letters from both the manufacturer and all of my suppliers. I knew that vaccine was pulled very early - even though it's not a vaccine I've ever actually ordered or used.

>>...a year ago, Teva Pharma was closed down by the FDA.>>

See above. I stopped using my ketamine stock.

>>I suggested none of your interpretations.

No, you implied that a lay client is equally qualified to select products as is a veterinarian. That's simply not true, and it's obvious you still don't understand why not.

If money was the issue, my city (Washington DC) offers free vaccinations every year at numerous locations over several weeks. Do I take my dogs there? No. Why? Because I want my dog in a vet's clinic when he is vaccinated, in the event of a reaction, and also because I don't have that much confidence in how the DC Dept. Of Health selects or handles its vaccines.

I also choose to set vaccination appointments early in the day, and not on a Friday, so that if a reaction appears later, I can get to a vet QUICKLY.

Yes, it costs more. But most of the pet insurance companies offer a policy that includes annual vaccinations. Especially if money is tight, it might be worth looking into.

__"No, you implied that a lay client is equally qualified to select products as is a veterinarian. That's simply not true, and it's obvious you still don't understand why not."

How about in a few brief sentences, explain why you as the qualified professional choose one vaccine, vendor, or manufacturer for us "unenlightened" readers.

We would like to understand your "discernment" for quality & would be much appreciative.