I swear this whole reality TV craze going on is starting to get out of hand, and this new show is a prime example of that. These people need help, and adding a camera to all that they're going through just adds insult to injury. I watched 1 episode, just to see what the show was about, and i have to say that I was appalled. Are people that desperate for something to watch on TV that they have to turn to THIS!?

Yes, that's right: some scientists opposed to TNR have begun comparing colony caregivers to hoarders. In a recent letter to Conservation Biology, ten scientists argued that "trap-neuter-return is essentially cat hoarding without walls." See for yourself by downloading the complete letter from the American Bird Conservancy website (http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/cats/Lepczyk-2010-Conservation%20Biology.pdf).

This will soon be the subject of a post at Vox Felina, where I've begun to untangle the dubious scientific claims made by those opposed to free-roaming cats and TNR.

Peter
www.voxfelina.com

Dr. Khuly,

You're forgetting one thing here: IT MAKES GOOD TV.

The Producers of such garbage TV probably think the same of your job:
It's an awful job, but somebody's got to do it.

It's just that your job doesn't score TV ratings or renewals for a second, third or fourth season. Your job is based in reality and that just doesn't make good TV as the producers see it.

For now, exploiting someone's mental disorder or any other aberration of life is just what the doctor ordered. Sorry, Dr. Khuly, you live in TRUE reality and that's just not profitable enough for Hollywood.

It is not always a case of the animals being neglected. Sometimes it is the family, children, home life and friends and relatives who suffer.

I unfortunately have personal experience with a wonderful woman who has gone awry and has gone from mild problems to full animal hoarding. There is no argument you can muster, no help you can offer, that will change her behavior. She is overworked, overstressed and ruining her health in an attempt to support all the animals plus her children.

It is really heartbreaking. That is not an overstatement. And obviously a serious disorder. I can only see disaster coming. It is ruining her relationships with those who love her and she strenulously defends keeping all her animals.

There is never a "good enough" home in which to place the animals. It is only under the most extreme circumstances that any leave. And there are friends who are perfectly happy to unload their unwanted animals on her. Either they don't realize the situation or don't care.

Having a TV show exploit what is a sad situation is sick. I have no intention of watching a show about something that already sickens me. I have spent my adult life involved in professions that deal with animals. I have seen so many otherwise kind people go overboard in their love of animals into hoarding. I know these people mean well. They cannot see that they have crossed a line from compassion into illness.

No, I will not watch.
Most that watch Animal Planet are somewhat aware of the plight of animal abuse so it may get some play in the broader media and raise awareness.
I will be comforted when any show that attempts to raise awareness also includes an element of judgment. It is wrong, irresponsible and unacceptable in society. Otherwise, all of these matters become marginalized and acceptable behavior becomes further blurred.

I'm a DVM, just turned on to your blog by one of my clients. Enjoying your commentary very much! Like minded...

This whole voyeuristic thing we have going on in our society is nothing short of nauseating. Seeing suffering and dysfunctional personalities as "entertainment" is, as you say, just plain wrong. Unfortunately, tuning in to "just see what it's about" is helping their ratings. The only solution is the off switch. Or do as we do, and don't waste your money on cable. We haven't had "TV" in our home since 1992, we do watch movies/purchased shows, but no network TV, commercials, or TV news. It's a great way to raise kids who are "readers"!

Keep writing!

Dr. Khuly, I think your comments illustrate just why a well made program regarding this issue needs to be created and watched by the general public.

"It’s like saying schizophrenics possess a "fascinating subculture." Or drug addicts. Which, well, they might in many cases."

Um, yeah, they do. Have you ever studied schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, anxiety disorders or personality disorders? The stigma and persecution that comes with these diseases is UNBELIEVABLE. Would a cancer patient with a med reaction freaking out in a Walmart be arrested? Maybe, but the charges would be dropped. I'm not saying that this behaviour should be excused, allowed or encouraged, but this is a COMPULSION and not a CHOICE.

"But to base a reality television show on the jaw-dropping antics of those who would brave divorce, financial ruin, and indescribably bad hygiene for their inability to control their animal acquisitions seems JUST. PLAIN. WRONG."

Really? Showing the world just how this disease affects the individual, the friends, the family, the neighbourhood, the city, the ANIMALS, etc... these people are not "braving" these conditions, they are STUCK IN THEM. They have an irrational belief that nothing is wrong and that only they can give these animals the care they need.

This is not abuse born from lack of love, caring or understanding. This is abuse born from a mental disease, likely associated with a chemical imbalance.

These people NEED a light shined on them. This subculture NEEDS to be brought to the forefront so that we can enact EFFECTIVE laws to combat the issue.

And "effective" does not mean pet limits and other such BS. Effective means continued support after the initial meeting, to ensure that the person involved gets proper treatment. CONTINUED treatment. Not just a condemned home, an abandoned family, a criminal record and the loss of their beloved pets.

I've been involved in hoarding cases - many of them. I know of what I speak.

Now, the show - I can't seem to get it here in Canada so I'll be looking it up in other ways.

But in the meantime, I think that your entire post is degrading, insulting and demeaning to those with this particular psychotic disorder.

Imagine your post was cracking on a show portraying families who live with bipolar, multiple personality disorder, disaffective disorder, borderline personality disorder... the list goes on and on. These people are ILL and they need HELP. Not persecution and ridicule.

Shame on you.

I had an uncle, long since passed, that averaged around 12-15 dogs and 30 or 40 cats. Must have been a hoarder, eh?

Not so fast. First, he lived on 2 to 3 acres. The land was "cat fenced" which means the cats couldn't escape either. The dogs were one big happy pack, having access to roaming and running as well as a creek. He had them properly warmed in the winter with shelter and heat. They were fed and he had a good working relationship with the local vet. The cats had the run of the land as well. To be true, if you didn't like cats and dogs, you wouldn't like his house. My parents used to make fun of "Uncle Jim" and really felt what he did was sick and horrible.

But I saw the other side. He saved so many dogs. He saved one dog that hated people but loved the "pack." No one could approach the dog, but the dog functioned well around other animals. He rescued one dog, a 6 year old miniature Dachshund that had been kept in a 3x3 pen and did nothing but have litters. The owner brought the dog in because of difficulties with one litter. The litter was a loss. The vet told the owner "the mom died as well." The guy left in a huff. The mom was, however, still alive, if but abused and physically drained. The vet called my Uncle and asked him to take another in, which he did. The dog lived another four years and was happy. I never got over how much the dog loved people. She sure had no reason to.

Hoarding? Well, I dunno. Uncle Jim never had kids, never had much of a family. Or, well, maybe he did have a family.

Hello, my name is Marga, i"m a vet living and working in Canary Islands, actually Spain, but a cross culture place. I find your blog very interesting, every day problems and situations, perhaps not change them, but comforts to share them whit somebody !!!
Thanks for all that work and for caring.
Sorry for my english !!!!! la proxima en español.
Marga Azcorra, Veterinaria Tias

Babysweet is offbase. There are plenty of shows about the mentally ill and/or drug abusers - try Intervention, skanks on a bus, Wife Swap, poor little rich girls, or any of the other garbage reality shows. Basically watchers get to say, "Wow, we're not that bad, look at those poor saps."

I won't watch the hoarding shows, I know hoarders I could go visit instead. One is a client but not over the top at this time. There are also too many animal cop shows, but I will watch Houston and Miami for short periods.

The best thing you can do is turn off the idiot box and go enjoy your own life.

It's a shame that some of the Discovery Channels have taken on other people's misery as entertainment (disguised as education).

My theory is that animal hoarders are people who are deserted by their family and friends, and so transfer that need for fellowship to their animals. Have you ever seen a situation where the animal hoarder is surrounded by loving family or neighbors who give a sh*t? I don't think so.

I heard one of the lines about the hoarder's behavior "keeping her away from family." Well, you know the street goes two ways, sister.

I know, because although I'm not a hoarder, I did happen to take on 2 bunnies that an elderly lady couldn't care for. When I went to pick them up, her daughter and granddaughter had "found" 3 more. I gladly took them, thinking I would have them checked out and then possibly/probably take them to a rabbit rescue. Well, one of the little dears was pregnant. So, two weeks later I was surprised when I went to feed and here she was completely bald on her front. Since she came from the street, I thought "Oh no. Mites? Fleas?" and then I saw the big white puff of fur in the back corner and every once in a while a little pink foot would stick out of the white fluff.
Only 3 survived, but although I had good intentions to see these bunnies go to a nearby rescue...I got attached to the little buggers.

But, you know, I didn't realize I couldn't do it all by myself.
And boy, I was all by myself! I had no help (despite being a member of HRS--couldn't get a fellow member to come help me) I was alone. And then, I developed Fibromyalgia, and then I was REALLY alone. I was smart enough to make sure that they didn't breed, but my goodness, except for the bunnies who seemed to truly like me...I was all alone.

So, again, I say, yes, the hoarders do have problems, but I think they are emotional, rather than mental. I think these are people who feel a kinship to unwanted animals, because they themselves are unwanted animals, or at least that's how they feel.

The next time someone hears of or knows of an animal hoarder, they should ask themselves, does anyone really care? Has anyone come around this person or cared enough to talk to them about it? Or is this a situation where the hoarder is viewed as "crazy" and people don't want to have anything to do with them or are afraid to help?

(BTW, I only have 2 rabbits now)

@babysweet ?

Dr.Treadway is spot on. This isn't going to be an educational program. It's voyeurism, plain and simple. People who want to turn on the channel for 30 or 60 minutes and say "Ewwwww!" and "Oh my god!"

When I want to learn about something like schizophrenia or personality disorders, I don't look to TV as the source, except perhaps PBS.

"So, again, I say, yes, the hoarders do have problems, but I think they are emotional, rather than mental."

EXACTLY. You THINK they are emotional, rather than mental.

Except that the scientific community disagrees. Strongly.

These are not simply overemotional people. These are people who, for whatever reason, have developed an obsession.

Would you tell someone that couldn't stop cutting themselves that they simply had to control their emotions better?

Geckospot - I would suggest you invest in an education. Or perhaps at the very least a dictionary. Yes, "Intervention" focuses on people with serious drug and alcohol addiction and their efforts to get help.

But to throw "Skanks on a Bus", "Wife Swap", and "Poor Little Rich Girls" in as your examples of shows depicting what you refer to as "plenty of shows about the mentally ill and/or drug abusers" is as ignorant as it is ridiculous.

We work with animal hoarders constantly. The vast majority of them simply need help. Help caring for their animals, psychological help and support, and in most cases, life coaching so that they can focus on something more positive.

Is the reality of the situation gross? Yep. But that's what people NEED TO SEE in order to give the issue the recognition it deserves.

It's also imperative to make note of the fact that the number of animals does NOT a hoarder make. We've topped out here at 22 cats (many of them kittens) and 13 dogs. However, all were adopted, vaccinated, altered, clean, quiet and well cared for under the supervision of a veterinarian.

The misconceptions that go along with this disease (and yes, it is a disease, even the DSM will agree eventually) are infinite. Why does this mental disorder deserve any less attention than any other disease? Oh, wait - I forgot. Because in North America the mentally ill are treated worse than stray cats.

In fact, I get the distinct feeling that the same people flipping past this program will be the same people that see that same mentally ill homeless person day after day after day... and do NOTHING about it.

And Dr. Khuly - I think if you had used the word "antics" to describe the behaviour of someone with a DSM identifiable mental illness you'd have special interest groups on you like cats on tuna.

In fact, I don't think I've ever heard you make such an insensitive comment.

"It's voyeurism, plain and simple. People who want to turn on the channel for 30 or 60 minutes and say "Ewwwww!" and "Oh my god!"

Or let's just be honest. That's YOUR response to it. Particularly interesting and uninformed coming from someone who has not seen the program. Move along.

See if the description of the word "antics" meets with Dr. Khuly's general tone.




–noun
1.Usually, antics.
a.a playful trick or prank; caper.
b.a grotesque, fantastic, or ludicrous gesture, act, or posture.
2.Archaic.
a.an actor in a grotesque or ridiculous presentation.
b.a buffoon; clown.
3.Obsolete.
a.a grotesque theatrical presentation; ridiculous interlude.
b.a grotesque or fantastic sculptured figure, as a gargoyle.
–adjective
4.ludicrous; funny.
5.fantastic; odd; grotesque: an antic disposition.
–verb (used without object)
6.Obsolete. to perform antics; caper.

Babysweet - ok, we got it already. Thank you.

There is a fundamental difference between an educational film or documentary about hoarding, and a show that exploits the pain and illness of another.

It's like the comparison between a sex education documentary/presentation and porn.

Regarding the science babysweet refers to, there's actually precious little of it.

In his April 2000 article for Psychiatric Times, Randy Frost noted that "research on animal hoarding is in its infancy." In his book Stuff (co-authored with Gail Steketee), published just this year, the story is much the same.

If there's any good to come out of the television series, perhaps it will be in the form of more research—which will in turn lead to fewer cases of animal hoarding.

Peter

I am a faithfull Animal Planet watcher but this is one series I feel and way out there. It you watch this channel you will see other shows that show pieces of the animal hoarding problem. It totally unnecessary to show an hour each week on the problem. This are people with serious mental problems and do not belong on TV. Then to make matters worse Animal Planet keeps repeating the same show over and over again. Enought already.

I don't think that Dr. Khuly, or anyone else commenting, was attempting to make light of mental illness, and saying so is a bit of a stretch.

As far as describing "hoarders" as having antics, I would say it is an accurate description. I interact on a regular basis with clients that have large numbers of animals...whether classified as hoarders or not...and it is at times amusing how we let our furry friends control our lives. I am guilty of it as well, I love mine. It is also sad when you see that people take it too far...when they want so badly to help animals that they take in more than they can manage. This happens quite often. Unfortunately, the reality show will undoubtedly focus on the extreme cases, and many "hoarders" will be left thinking to themselves, "It's ok, I'm not that bad". Therefore, I don't believe that the show will serve any purpose except to exploit those who truly have a problem.

I know somebody whom I think may be an animal (and general) hoarder. She lives alone in a small house and is now up to 11 domestic pets. I'm concerned because she said that she wasn't going to go into "double digits" (past the number nine), which she has now done, and she said that she was not going to get another dog, which she has now done also. I believe that she also has other hoarding tendancies as well because her house is a mess and she can't seem to get a handle on it or get rid of anything. In fact, her house is now off limits to EVERYONE. She won't let people in her house anymore. I truly think she needs help and don't know how to go about helping her.

"I don't think that Dr. Khuly, or anyone else commenting, was attempting to make light of mental illness, and saying so is a bit of a stretch."

"This (sic) are people with serious mental problems and do not belong on TV."

"As far as describing "hoarders" as having antics, I would say it is an accurate description."



So, suggesting that there's some serious bias here against mental illness is "a stretch."

When people with serious mental problems "do not belong on TV"

When hoarding is placed in quotations.

When their behaviours are being described with words synonymous with being "playful" or "funny".

How about the following statements:

"People with Schizophrenia do not belong on TV."
"When people talk about "schizophrenics"..."
"Oh, the antics of those Schizophrenics!"

Offensive? They should be.

These people have a problem. And it is NOT ok to sweep it under the rug.

How many of you watched "Gasland", "For Love of Water", "Diagnosis Bipolar", or other such documentaries that have accurately depicted the issues they tackle.

When was the last time any of you watched a documentary?

If this is what it takes for the people involved to realize that this is an illness, and not simply "bad people" to be dealt with like common criminals - then so be it.

It's not the fault of Animal Planet that this is what it takes to draw attention to a serious issue that desperately NEEDS attention.

As for the research, there is little research on suicidal tendencies in children. Does that mean it doesn't exist? Should we refer to these children as "suicidal"?

But there is enough research for anyone who would read beyond the writings of a single author before making a decision.

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&q=compulsive+hoarding&btnG=Search&as_sdt=2000&as_ylo=&as_vis=0

Here's a taste.

And to compare this program to porn is just ignorant.

Ok, Babysweet...tell us what you really think. Again and again. Sheesh.

I don't plan on watching it. Our understanding of hoarding as a condition is still pretty limited, and I doubt that a program like this will do more good than harm.

Welcome to my new readers! Thanks for posting comments to let me know you're here and reading:

To Marga: Aquí todos pueden contribuir sus opiniones en español. Somos bilingue aquí. ;-)

To Celeste: Not TV here either. Killed it long ago. Like-minded, indeed.

To babysweet: On the use of the word, "antics." It was intended with a whiff of sarcasm about it. As if watching this realty show could be like watching the Kardashian's sisters' "antics" as they go about their supposedly entertaining lives. Sorry if it came across as disrespectful to those who suffer mental illnesses.

I probably won't watch, as I don't have cable. Would I peek if it were flickering on a screen nearby? Sure, which is one reason I don't have cable!

As for whether or not the show will be informative: I don't know, but based on the current ratio of exploitative garbage vs. informative worthwhile TV programming, I'm not optimistic. Related programs include TLC's "Hoarding: Buried Alive" and Discovery Health's "Psych Week" this past spring, featuring episodes such as "The Woman With 15 Personalities" and "Born Schizophrenic". I haven't watched any of those programs, either (I can use Google).

I've dealt with a number of hoarders over the years. In my experience, the only "cure" for some is to be forbidden, legally, to own animals, ever again, and for law enforcement to inspect regularly.

Many hoarders masquerades as "rescues" and attempt to gain the sympathy and (financial) support of veterinarians. Some (though not all) caretakers of feral cat colonies are probably hoarders, too.

Peter: though the comment from the 2000 article was probably accurate ten years ago, there is actually a group founded in 1997 known as the Hoarding of Animals Research Consortium (HARC). HARC is based out of Tufts University.

According to an article originally published in _Veterinary Medicine_ (but available on DVM360, see: Animal hoarding, its roots and recognition by Gary J. Patronek VMD, PhD, 8/1/06):

"Common features of animal hoarders include: poor insight, lack of resistance to the compulsion to hoard (like mstpaine's friend), and poor treatment motivation.

"An animal hoarder is defined as someone who: accumulates a large number of animals; fails to provide even minimal standards of husbandry and veterinary care (NOT EAB's uncle or BunnyWoman!); fails to act on the deteriorating conditions of the animals or environment, even if the animals are starving, diseased, or dying; fails to act on the negative impact of the hoarding on his or her own health and well-being and that of other household members.

"This failure to act is accompanied by varying — and typically large — degrees of denial regarding the extent of the deterioration.

Good article, and I daresay of far greater educational value than whatever Animal Planet is screening. Surf on over to DVM360 for the full article.

Now I'm going to finish the book I've been reading.

I've watched the program. I'll continue to watch it.
...Am i the only commenter who has watched it before commenting?

Overall i don't feel the people are being exploited- they invited the cameras into their home.
In response to BunnyWoman's comments about them being isolated and alone, that is the exact opposite of both families i saw on the episode i watched- the one gentlemen was asking his family for help, and they did. The woman had a very devoted family who were concerned for her welfare and had an intervention to get her some help

Any way, i agree with babysweet that sometimes these things need to be made public in order for them to be understood. I'm amazed every day at how ignorant the general public can be about things like animal hoarding or animal welfare (i work at a shelter). yeah animal planet doesn't have the best shows all the time, but a lot more people call to report animal cruelty after watching shows like animal cops, because now they know they CAN

Honestly, what's the worst that could happen from this show? Some strangers whom these people will likely never meet will judge them harshly?
What about the potential good? The additional awareness about the issue- that it's AN ILLNESS and the solution isn't just getting rid of the animals. What if someone watches this show and decides that they'd like to dedicate their lives to helping people with this issue? The potential benefits that come from education and awareness are just endless.

babysweet obviously is a lot more passionate about the subject than i am, but i think most of her points are valid

I hate these 'reality' shows, and I do not watch them. I don't want to see cringing, crippled, beaten, abused, or starving animals of ANY kind - there are enough viewed in daily life!

Reality shows are a dime a dozen, now. I want to be entertained when I watch TV, and they are NOT entertainment to me (Where are the Gene Kelly's of the world when you need 'um?).

Everyone seems to suffer from some ailment with 'initials'. I'm afraid all that nonsense started with the 'I'm OK - You're OK' garbage and pharm. houses have jumped on the bandwagon. No one takes ANY responsibility, anymore, for their actions. I guess that's a boon for shrinks!?!

Want insensitive? Institutionalize the lot of them... maybe, throw in their viewers, too!

Need cash? Start up your own cooking or reality show.

>>What about the potential good? The additional awareness about the issue- that it's AN ILLNESS and the solution isn't just getting rid of the animals.>>

Well, yes, sometimes the solution IS getting rid of the animals, because mental illness does not give one the right to subject animals to inadequate care or inhumane conditions.

As I already mentioned, anyone truly interested in learning accurate information about animal hoarding can start by visiting DVM360 or HARC's website. There's plenty of good information to be found in the written form, though it's dry with no accompanying lurid video or sad musical soundtrack.

I watched the previews on the Animal Planet website and saw exactly what I expected to see, based on my knowledge of hoarders: denial, poor insight, poor judgment, "magical" thinking, squalor, and failure to recognize the animals' needs.

The neighbor in back of us is an animal hoarding and

Hmmm, emotional IS mental. Where is the distinction? We simply don't have support systems in place for most people with whatever condition.

Anyone who has been closely associated with a hoarder will understand how incredibly difficult it is to deal with this problem. I have learned that there is not much I can do about the behavior. I can remain close and hope that someday the situation changes.

You cannot make another person understand, they need to see it thimselves. I do not think the show will help many hoarders since they will simply be offended and say "That's not me." I can't imagine that this is going to help the hoarder's support system, either.

I haven't seen the shows but doubt that anything that is a reality series is going to deal with the subject objectively, fairly and in a way that is helpful. Otherwise those who are attracted to these shows would not continue watching.

.

Your comments were so right on the money and perceptive. Do you have a website or anything else? I am especially concerned about the new belief set setting in that anyone who has more than 1 or 2 pets can't possible care for them and must be a hoarder.

Thank you for all you wrote, it was amazing.

>>I am especially concerned about the new belief set setting in that anyone who has more than 1 or 2 pets can't possible care for them and must be a hoarder.>>

Not at all, unless a person with multiple animals also meets the other criteria listed in Patronek's 2006 paper (available free online at DVM360: _Veterinary Medicine_; Animal hoarding, its roots and recognition).

Hoarders are almost always in denial and incapable of recognizing that they are in fact hoarders (vs. responsible animal lovers or even rescuers). Some hoarders I've met can be quite engaging: intelligent, well-groomed, pleasant.

>>What about the potential good? The additional awareness about the issue- that it's AN ILLNESS and the solution isn't just getting rid of the animals.>>

"Well, yes, sometimes the solution IS getting rid of the animals, because mental illness does not give one the right to subject animals to inadequate care or inhumane conditions."

Yes, generally the animals, or at a minimum most of them, have to be removed. But if that is ALL you do, you haven't solved the problem; you haven't even addressed it.

The solution is not JUST getting rid of the animals; you have to do a lot more if you want to address the problem and not merely its symptoms.

For anyone interested in learning more about this issue, here are some of the top links:

Animal Hoarding: A Hidden Danger in the Sport of Purebred Breeding?

Animal Hoarding: Its Roots and Recognition

ASPCA - Animal Hoarding

I think the Tufts website mentioned above truly is an excellent resource: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/hoarding/

Thank you for your support, to those of you who expressed it.

No, I don't have a website, although certain things are in the works.

My passion for this issue comes from a multitude of places. My disgust at the stigma attached to mental illness. My frustration that law enforcement and the general public just don't realize that simply removing the animals does not solve the problem. Constant supervision is required, either by family members or the state. Support must be provided permanently.

These people are treated like animal abusers - and while what they do is CERTAINLY qualified as such, these people TRULY believe that they are doing the best for their animals. They feel that their lives will end without their animals. Their only reason for living, in many cases, is their animals.

These people need help and assistance - and the only way to get it is to speak UP. There is a REASON that the vast majority of the homeless suffer mental illness. This is just one more example of innocent victims of disease being swept aside.

And since it's been asserted that mental = emotional, I suggest you pick up a book or two.

Can one's mental state affect one's emotional state? Certainly, and vice versa. But these people do not suffer from emotional disorders. They suffer from MENTAL disorders. They suffer from chemical or physiological differences in their brain, either from nature or nurture, or likely a combination of both. It is NOT THEIR FAULT. THEY CAN NOT STOP ON THEIR OWN. And this does not make them bad people, it makes them ill. The animal lives affected by these situations are not without a voice either. Hoarding needs to be researched further so that if nothing else we can identify these people sooner and get them the help that they need so that no one need suffer. If that means watching an "Oh Geez!" show to get the word out, so be it.

And for those of you who had the audacity to suggest I stop posting. Pretty sure, last time I checked, that's what this forum is for. And as long as people are spouting off half- or un-truths about the sufferers of mental illness there is the NEED and the RESPONSIBILITY for those of us who are the lucky ones to speak on their behalf.

Dr. Khuly - thank you for your clarification. But I do hope that you will reconsider your position that this is an important topic that needs to be seen by the general public. I believe that the end justifies the means, particularly when the means fail to involve the exploitation of any party involved.

@ Equine DVM and Eilis- you are correct- i mis-spoke and should've said 'the solution isn't always just about removing the animals'
Too often that's how Animal Control or other agencies treat these cases. And if you only remove the animals, then you are treating the symptom and not the illness. And the cycle will start all over again.

I may be mistaken, but i think they may have referenced HARC on the episode i watched

>>The solution is not JUST getting rid of the animals; you have to do a lot more if you want to address the problem and not merely its symptoms.>>

Well, unfortunately, that's currently a problem with treatment of all forms of mental illness for all but the wealthiest, self-pay U.S. citizens: minimal funding = minimal support. The advocacy group NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) has a website and is an excellent resource.

Then there's the problem of who, exactly, is "you"? A veterinarian is NOT the appropriate person to begin to address a hoarder's issues - just as an elementary school teacher cannot be expected to attempt to work with an abusive or neglectful parent. We're not mental health professionals. Veterinarians pick up the pieces, and those who have done so repeatedly frequently require support themselves to address burnout, depression, anxiety, PTSD, and/or compassion fatigue.

As for hoarders believing they're doing the best for their animals: that is NOT admirable - it's part of the delusion. A hoarder will NOT die if she is prohibited from owning animals, just as a person who suffers from anxiety will not die while having a panic attack.

First time commenter, so please don't murder me.

I agree with the facts that have been brought up about bringing mental illnesses, like the hoarding mentality, into the spot light and ridding the world of the various stigmas attached to them. I'm a suffered of PTSD and would love it if, when asked why I'm not in school or working, to not receive the response "Oh, but, like, nothing's REALLY wrong with you." I know I don't have a physical injury, but an emotional one can do as much or even more damage to a person.

Is this Animal Hoarders show bringing hoarding into the spotlight? Yes, but I don't think it's in the way that would benefit hoarders. I liken it to a sideshow. Did sideshows enlighten the public about conjoined twins? They certainly knew they existed, but regarded them as freaks. That's my fear of what shows like this and there's another hoarding show on TLC will do. I think it's adding MORE of a stigma to people who hoard.

Obviously I don't know the solution, and have yet to see the show. But from the advertisements, it does not look good. I will definitely watch an episode though to really form my verdict.

I am not sure if we can give out e-mail addresses here but if you read this, can you e-mail me at donnawatkins2000@yahoo.com?

Hi Babysweet,

I am a researcher for the Animal Planet series, Confessions: Animal Hoarding. I have tried to reach you via the email address you posted. Many times our emails are delivered to junk folders and people miss them.

If you are still interested in speaking with me I can be reached directly at 1 877 698 7387 (toll free) or help@animalhoardingproject.com.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Alexis

@ Equine DVM

"As for hoarders believing they're doing the best for their animals: that is NOT admirable - it's part of the delusion. A hoarder will NOT die if she is prohibited from owning animals, just as a person who suffers from anxiety will not die while having a panic attack."

Two issues here. NO ONE SAID that hoarders or their intentions are "admirable". That's a word you picked out of your very own scrabble bag.

And no, a hoarder will not die if they are prohibited from owning animals. Unless they kill themselves. A person who is suffering anxiety will not die while having a panic attack? Untrue. The stress on the body can absolutely have secondary effects.

And for the record, I would like you to experience a single panic attack, a single minute of what it's like to live with a mental disorder, and then to suggest that it's not that big a deal. Cause, you know... it's not like they DIED, so get over it!

It is the dismissal of mental illness that is the issue. So what you've proven is that hoarding is not "admirable" (a point of your own choosing) and that hoarders will not "die" directly from the removal of their animals. Constant psychological strain and instability, sure, but at least AC won't be DIRECTLY responsible for their death, right?

Give me a break.

>>NO ONE SAID that hoarders or their intentions are "admirable". That's a word you picked out of your very own scrabble bag.>>

Good, we are in agreement.

Hoarders' "love" for their animals is highly pathological in nature, similar to the relationship portrayed in the movie "Mommie Dearest". Animals don't need "love" like that.

>>a hoarder will not die if they are prohibited from owning animals. Unless they kill themselves.>>

Most mentally ill people have an enhanced risk of suicide. Unless you can provide references, I'd suggest the risk of a hoarder committing suicide because she is actively hoarding and has alienated family and friends is just as high, or higher, than the risk for a hoarder in recovery who has been prohibited from owning animals.

A hoarder in Oregon committed suicide just last week; she killed herself and 17 of her 70+ pets via carbon monoxide poisoning. Apparently, no one about the hoarding situation prior to her death.

>>A person who is suffering anxiety will not die while having a panic attack? Untrue. The stress on the body can absolutely have secondary effects.>>

You are incorrect. Panic attack sufferers believe they will die, but if panic attacks killed, people would drop dead in the streets, daily.

>>I would like you to experience a single panic attack

Gee whiz, what a nice thought.

>>a single minute of what it's like to live with a mental disorder>>

Do you know firsthand what it's like to be mentally ill?

>>then to suggest that it's not that big a deal.

Where did I say this?

>>Cause, you know... it's not like they DIED, so get over it!

Fortunately, panic attacks are not lethal.

>>It is the dismissal of mental illness that is the issue.

By whom?

>>what you've proven

I don't think I've "proven" anything, though I did read some well-referenced articles about hoarding that were not sensational in any way and were written by people who seem to actually understand the disorder.

>>Constant psychological strain and instability, sure, but at least AC won't be DIRECTLY responsible for their death, right?>>

Well, I hope you never learn what it's like to lose someone to suicide. Suffice it to say: it is not possible to stop a determined suicidal person from committing suicide.

AC's job is to protect the animals involved. ACOs are not counselors, and generally have no formal training in psychology. AC is not responsible for the mental health of a hoarder.

If you're going to break this up three words at a time and remove context from everything, well I don't have time for this.

The short answers are yes, several people I know have committed suicide, and to suggest that suicidal people are incurable is ignorant and simply untrue.

I realize you "read some articles" but I have been dealing hands on with hoarders for years, have suffered from Bipolar disorder and Generalized Anxiety Disorder since at least before I was 17 (about half my life). You should consider reading the material in front of you in whole form rather than three words at a time - perhaps you would see that I never claimed panic attacks themselves could kill - however a panic attack experienced by someone who has high blood pressure, cardiac issues, a history of blood clots, can all be in danger. Did I mention repeated panic attacks cause stress damage on the body in ways you probably never even considered?

If you think for ONE SECOND that removing a hoarders only source of comfort doesn't increase their risk of suicide, you're delusional. Let's take a mentally sound mother and remove their child, never to return. Think their suicide rate may increase?

And finally, let's get the AC off the hook, right? Not my problem, so who gives a damn? How about putting into place a response team who CAN deal with the situation. Rather than sending ACOs to a home to wipe out that person's entire family, the thing they base their life around, and leave them with a summons, if anything at all.

Look, if you're going to add something, do so. If you're going to simply pick apart each post a word at a time (you really are missing the forest for the trees) I'm going to assume you can't formulate a readable response and simply skip your entries.

>>The short answers are yes, several people I know have committed suicide, and to suggest that suicidal people are incurable is ignorant and simply untrue.>>

Where did I say all suicidal people are incurable? Suicidal ideation is multifactorial in etiology, and as such, I'm not certain of your definition of “incurable”.

>>I realize you "read some articles" but I have been dealing hands on with hoarders for years...>>

As have I (like most veterinarians), some for many years, which is one reason I read the articles. The articles were written by people who possess broader experience and greater knowledge regarding this subject than either you or I. Some are mental health professionals, for example.

>>You should consider reading the material in front of you in whole form rather than three words at a time - perhaps you would see that I never claimed panic attacks themselves could kill - however a panic attack experienced by someone who has high blood pressure, cardiac issues, a history of blood clots, can all be in danger. Did I mention repeated panic attacks cause stress damage on the body in ways you probably never even considered?>>

"Stress damage" was addressed comprehensively in the physiology and medicine courses I studied in veterinary school. I can recommend some resources if you wish to actually understand the underlying mechanism of damage, which is chronic and unlikely to lead to sudden death.

>>If you think for ONE SECOND that removing a hoarders only source of comfort doesn't increase their risk of suicide, you're delusional. Let's take a mentally sound mother and remove their child, never to return. Think their suicide rate may increase?>>

Are you implying that hoarders are mentally sound? If you are, this is not a valid comparison.

Actually, here's an interesting question: in your opinion, should social services leave children with an abusive but mentally sound mother because HER suicide risk may increase?

How would you explain the behavior of hoarders like the woman in Oregon who committed suicide even though her hoarding problem was not discovered prior to her death?

I stand by my earlier statement: ALL mentally ill people have an enhanced risk of suicide.

>>How about putting into place a response team who CAN deal with the situation. Rather than sending ACOs to a home to wipe out that person's entire family, the thing they base their life around, and leave them with a summons, if anything at all.>>

Well, it's an unfortunate reality that mental health resources are inadequate for everyone save the wealthiest, law-abiding citizens. It's a societal failing.

>>Look, if you're going to add something, do so. If you're going to simply pick apart each post a word at a time (you really are missing the forest for the trees) I'm going to assume you can't formulate a readable response and simply skip your entries.>>

Okay, this is what I'll add:

First, you throw around the term "psychotic disorder" without apparent understanding that to actual mental health professionals, “psychotic” has a specific meaning and most hoarders are probably not suffering from a true psychosis. Similarly, you attacked one compassionate commenter who dared posit that hoarders suffer from an “emotional disorder”, when in fact this is an actual DSM IV classification (axis II, cluster B) including antisocial, borderline, histrionic and narcissistic personality disorders. I don't think even you would argue that many hoarders would probably fall into this very DSM IV category.

Second, if you bothered to read Patronek's 2006 paper, you would note that he and others who (unlike you) have devoted themselves to formal study of animal hoarders classify hoarders into three major categories: overwhelmed caregivers, rescuers and exploiters. The approach to dealing with these three groups varies; for example, compassion is completely inappropriate when working with an exploiter, and rescuers tend to be more difficult to approach than overwhelmed caregivers.

Like most veterinarians, I, unfortunately, have encountered all three groups. “Exploiters” are sociopaths (in the specific DSM IV sense of the term).

Furthermore, I am floored that you attacked many who expressed concern that Animal Planet's show may be pure exploitation of vulnerable, mentally ill people who are not actually competent to sign away their privacy rights. Theirs is a valid concern which I share.

If you want to be more helpful to the hoarders you encounter, I suggest you consult the HARC website for resources rather than relying upon your (necessarily) limited personal experiences, as this is not a common problem (estimate: 3000/year in the U.S., so probably around 300/year in Canada). Management of hoarders from an anecdotal perspective is an oversimplification and almost certainly inadequate. Hey, you may learn something.

Just what is seeing hoarders on a "regular basis"? As often as a checkup, rabies shots, castration?? I think not.. by perpetuating this myth that there is a "hoarders" around every corner by saying it is seen on a regular basis is to say to it is common.. and it is NOT COMMON.. in fact it is very UNCOMMON.. and the DSM has no definition for "animal hoarder" or any "hoarder" .. all hoarding situations are listed under obsessive compulsive behavior.. and it should stay that way..breaking down these problems into minutia is wrong.. and will eventually narrow what is called "normal" to a very few.. and will also allow many more people to claim disability.. and of course to be treated with drugs..
They are thinking of adding "mild anxiety disorder" to the DSM-V.. tell me one person that does not live with "mild" anxiety..mild anxiety is what allows us to function.. and to be aware of our surroundings and keeps us safe.. can you imagine driving your car with no anxiety at all.. you would ignore all traffic laws.. because hey.. no problem....
And will I watch AP.. not on your life.. they do prey on people and their emotions.. not to mention one of the "animal cops" is under indictment for stealing animals..

Personally I think babysweet is making some good points - Notice that she is from Canada where for the most part people generally are nicer because the almighty dollar does not completely run the show. People are treated better than they are in America, where illness and weakness are things to be attacked, not handled with humanity. In our "rugged individualism" we have been conditioned here not to care for the most part.

Regarding the story on Uncle Jim, you are not considered a hoarder if your animals are properly cared for, I wish I had that much land I would do the same thing.
I have a dog, Peke, 3 cats, 1 rescue, 1 adoption, and one I picked up after a neighbor got tired of caring for him at 3 months of age. I also take care of a small colony outside, 9 to be exact out of the nine I can actually handle 6, the others get meds in the food and are doing well.
My credit card balances are high but they are all spade or neutered, vaccinated, and thos I can handle will receive vet care when needed.
Miriam from Miami

It's easy to denigrate hoarders, but without providing humane alternatives all that does is slap people trying to help animals. I live on a farm and cats are dumped here (usually at night) all the time. I feed them, because I can't imagine watching them starve to death. The vet charges $140 per animal to humanely destroy one cat. The humane society charges to receive them - that's when they are accepting new 'boarders'. I've trapped, neutered & vaccinated the ones I could afford to - without TNR programs, I wouldn't be able to provide even that. I can't afford to 'do' any more of them, so they'll probably multiply. The only other alternative for these animals that I can think of is shooting & I can't stomach that either. So, put down hoarders all you like - what are YOU doing to fix the problem????? Would you like to come and shoot some cats? Is that something you can imagine doing???

I've watched the show and I actually have learned a lot - about myself - from watching shows like this. I am not a hoarder, but I feel that I have the *potential* to become one if the circumstances were right. I do have a bad habit of collecting things (decorative items, books, etc) and at one point in my life (where in hindsite I realize I was going through a MAJOR depression for a long time) i had the following in a small house: 3 dogs, 5 cats, 2 guinea pigs, 4 pet rats, a turtle, and 2 gerbils. Now the animals were all taken care of, the house was (relatively) clean, and I was not technically a hoarder - but... I feel that if I should ever fall into a major depression again, my reaction *might* be to start increasing my pet level. I am always on vigil to make sure that does not happen. I have also in the past year been reducing the quantity of "stuff" I have around the house - I've never had stacks of newspapers or magazines, or trash, or boxes of stuff like you see on the hoarding reality shows, but again... I just feel that I have that potential, and watching these kinds of shows actually helps me keep aware of how quickly and how far the problem can go. You know these poor people didn't start out with a huge problem - it crept up on them until they were overwhelmed and in denial. It's very sad. So I hope to continue learning from seeing these people's situations. I have an aunt who is a hoarder - but not yet in an extreme situation - but her house pretty much just has paths through it - no trash, just lots and lots of stuff and too many pets. So is there a chance it's genetic? I don't want to find out - so I am being diligent and self-aware by watching these shows. I don't feel like the people on the shows are being exploited and like another person posted, most of them seem to have family members that have been trying for years (unsuccessfully) to help them.

I only have 2 dogs and 2 cats - and plan to get to where I only have one species in the house at a time (either dogs or cats). I have a soft spot for any furry face so I have had to get a bit "harder" and if a stray starts hanging around, I now have to just catch the animal and take them to the local shelter - that's the best option and helps me not to acquire too many pets of my own.

A few comments from a new poster.

First, I just watched my first and possibly last episode of Confessions: Animal Hoarders on Animal Planet. One specific thing that bothered me greatly was that during the course of this episode, an obviously sick puppy was allowed to die. (This episode featured Flossie, who the program appeared to help by the end.) Using the only email address I could find, I wrote the show that they should have offered to get medical intervention for the puppies immediately. I did not condemn the show in that email for reasons of my own (see below) and in hopes that they would be more open-minded of my comments.

If others are interested in registering a similar protest, the email address is

help@animalhoardingproject.com

Second, despite my own belief that this show and its human counterparts are exploitation, I have an odd reason to be grudgingly grateful to them. Like babysweet, I am bipolar and have suffered from this condition for the past 30 years. I am currently recovering from my fifth and worst complete breakdown. One symptom of my big breakdowns is that I stop putting out the trash. This last episode lasted 1.5 years before starting to turn around.

Throughout my life, my oldest sister never understood my illness but was of the 'just-suck-it-up' school. This time, however, she has done a complete turn around in attitude. She is being compassionate, empathetic, and helpful without undue judgment. She has finally acknowledged that I am ill rather than morally lacking. What caused this turn around? She inadvertently saw an episode or two of a hoarder show. My other sister (a nurse) and I laugh about this because I am obviously not a hoarder but I am grateful for this effect nonetheless.

Lastly, although I am not a vet, I have loved animals all my life. Proudly, during my career as a biology professor, it has been my privilege to help prepare many students who are now compassionate practitioners of this noble profession.

Thank for an interesting forum and an outlet.