Subscribe to
Fully Vetted
Dr. Coates is a veterinarian based in the other “Sunshine State” – that's Colorado to the rest of you – where she lives and plays with a varied range of animals. She shares her professional and personal experiences, Monday through Friday, here on petMD's blog, the Fully Vetted. Log in for your daily dose of her insight and wisdom.

 

Why this vet hates the in-hospital toenail trim

March 25, 2009 / (49) comments


OK so here’s where I confess: I don’t like to trim toenails––nor do I relish delegating claw detail to my staff. And no, it’s not because we’ve got better things to do and can’t be bothered with the lowly pedicure. It’s more that I can’t stand the stress of the event. 

 

The problem: By and large, my canine patients hate having their claws clipped. Though a few of my owners have trained their dogs to accept the manipulation of their paws and have mastered the art of proper toenail submission, many still rely on the vet for the dubiously-helpful, once-a-year trim. 

 

So you know, shots, blood draws and even the fecal rod are far more readily accepted by the average dog than a nail trim. The majority of these patients shake and cower as we trim their nails. A sizable percentage must be forcefully restrained. And for what?

 

Let’s be honest: a dog that gets a nail trim once a year is receiving an all-but-useless service that only serves to make him more afraid of the veterinarian’s office. After all, they’ll have grown out within a month or two––or less in some cases. And some dogs really don’t need trimming at all as long as they walk on surfaces that sufficiently file their toenails.

 

That’s why I’ve begun a campaign to reduce nail trims at my workplace. Unless the animal is easily amenable or under anesthesia, annual or semi-annual nail trims are counterproductive when conducted by a veterinarian or her staff. You want his nails trimmed? Go to the groomer. Go to PetSmart. Go anywhere else but the place where stress should be minimized for medical reasons. 

 

Here's a happy toenail trim at a groomer's:

 

 

But you may ask: Isn’t nail trimming medically indicated? Isn’t it an integral part of my pet’s health? In that case, nail trimming is well within the veterinarian’s purview.

 

My rejoinder: I don’t bathe, brush or walk your dog, right? And they’re all necessary for optimal health. Why single out the nail trim when that’s every bit as basic as these home care fundamentals? 

 

The exception: There are always exceptions. As when pets require sedation or anesthesia for a trim. But even this is questionable if you consider the risks of anesthesia vs. the health rewards of nail trimming. 

 

Which brings me to the more obvious exception: Puppies! 

 

 

IMO a veterinarian should go out of his way to explain the importance of nail trimming to pet health. Primarily, nail trimming reduces injuries such as claw and toe fractures, prevents ingrown curved nails, and minimizes orthopedic problems that can result from poor claw positioning.

 

Puppy nail trim training is easily undertaken by providing positive stimulus while manipulating feet and clipping the claws. Because puppy claws are especially easy to trim, an owner who complies with directions and clips claws weekly can adapt easily to the procedure and fall into the habit with a minimum of human stress. 

 

Clients who neglect to trim their puppy’s toenails and expect the veterinarian to do it on a subsequent well-puppy visit should be gently informed of their responsibility. After all, the puppy visits will end and they’ll soon be on their own. Clients who fear clipping claws too short should be instructed in the use of a Dremel-like drill or PediPaws-style product as an alternative approach. 

 

 

So you know, I’m not the only veterinarian who hates the forced nail trim at the hospital. Here’s applied animal behaviorist and veterinarian Dr. Sophia Yin on the nail trim in her excellent book, “Low Stress Handling, Restraint and Behavior modification of Dogs and Cats: Techniques for Developing Patients Who Love Their Visits”:

 

“A toenail trim is not an emergency procedure. Do not perform one forcibly if the patient is unwilling to hold still. Doing so can train the dog to be more fearful of people, hate the veterinary hospital, and can even escalate to aggression immediately or in the future. Consequently, forced restraint is likely to cause the dogs to become behaviorally worse than when they entered. Instead, if the dog will not hold still, inform the owner that you are concerned about the dog’s behavioral health and ability to be treated in the future.”

 

Dr. Yin then offers a host of counterconditioning techniques that veterinarians and technicians can teach their clients to perform at home. Treats and petting and gradual approach to feet (and later, claws)––all through positive, gentle interactions. Here's a video to illustrate (though I would likely have used a muzzle, initially, for this pet, the techniques work).

 

Sure, it’s our job to make sure your pet gets that nail trim. But that doesn’t mean it should be happening at the hospital––especially if it trebles the stress of an already stressful visit. After all, if your dog hates the toenail trim so much, you really should be looking at yourself and wondering what it is YOU can do to help your pet. 

 

Subscribe to Fully Vetted
COMMENTS (49)
1
by on 12/08/2009 01:04am

You need some time to understand that you have been cheated and you will never receive your [url=http://www.jungsonn.com]pandora beads[/url] watch�. What stays behind?Compare prices with other websites dealing in bracelet [url=http://www.jungsonn.com]pandora charms[/url] watches. However Pandora bracelet watches are great imitations of the original and come with almost all the features and looks that match its better counterpart. Pandora bracelet watches are not fakes in the sense these are actually high quality imitations of the originals and sell between $150 to $600 in the open market. These bracelets look and feel the same as the original and you can bet that apart from professional jewelers hardly 1 out of 10 people would be able to tell the difference.Websites dealing in bracelet [url=http://www.theredamerica.com]pandora jewelry[/url] watches often get praiseworthy reviews from customers. When you wear a Pandora bracelet you would definitely feel as if you are wearing something that is not exactly a fake but a good high quality watch. Why Buy Pandora watches. Next tip to keep in mind is that after the [url=http://www.theredamerica.com]pandora jewelry[/url] has been serviced it may be faster anywhere from zero to 10 seconds at any point during 24 hours. The steel band is also a strong material and efficiently protects the watch from being eroded by the brine of the sea. The Pandora GMT watch also includes a one hour jump feature so that the second hour hand may quickly be set for any time zone, providing a pilot instant access to accurate time no matter where they are in the world.


 

2
by on 12/08/2009 01:03am

You need some time to understand that you have been cheated and you will never receive your <a target="_blank" href="http://www.jungsonn.com">pandora beads</a> watch�. What stays behind?Compare prices with other websites dealing in bracelet <a target="_blank" href="http://www.jungsonn.com">pandora charms</a> watches. However Pandora bracelet watches are great imitations of the original and come with almost all the features and looks that match its better counterpart. Pandora bracelet watches are not fakes in the sense these are actually high quality imitations of the originals and sell between $150 to $600 in the open market. These bracelets look and feel the same as the original and you can bet that apart from professional jewelers hardly 1 out of 10 people would be able to tell the difference.Websites dealing in bracelet <a target="_blank" href="http://www.theredamerica.com">pandora jewelry</a> watches often get praiseworthy reviews from customers. When you wear a Pandora bracelet you would definitely feel as if you are wearing something that is not exactly a fake but a good high quality watch. Why Buy Pandora watches. Next tip to keep in mind is that after the <a target="_blank" href="http://www.theredamerica.com">pandora jewelry</a> has been serviced it may be faster anywhere from zero to 10 seconds at any point during 24 hours. The steel band is also a strong material and efficiently protects the watch from being eroded by the brine of the sea. The Pandora GMT watch also includes a one hour jump feature so that the second hour hand may quickly be set for any time zone, providing a pilot instant access to accurate time no matter where they are in the world.


 

3
by on 04/01/2009 11:47pm

There's a great article in the March 2009 issue of The Whole Dog Journal called "Do My Nails...Please!" by Pat Miller. It gives great step-by-step instructions about how to train your dog to accept nail trims and discusses why it's so important to do so! 


"Difficult" nail trims are a huge pet peeve of mine in private practice, and I have worked hard at training the staff to not wrestle and fight these poor animals so much. If it takes two people to restrain and a third to trim, it's not worth it! Sedate the dog if he really needs his nails trimmed! 

4
by on 03/29/2009 11:10am

Loren, if you and your dog are walking a lot on pavement, that does a lot to reduce the frequency needed for nail trims. It's still better to do it on some kind of regular basis, if you can.


Many years ago, I learned from my first cat that I needed to start nail-trimming on my second cat when she was a tiny kitten. Much easier! (In our defense, I will mention that our first cat was a year-old stray when we adopted her from the shelter.) I've done that routinely with every cat I've had since, and the current crew, they just lie there and purr while I'm doing their nails. My vet for the last decade would occasionally offer to trim their nails, and since I usually remembered to do it a few days before bringing them in, I'd always say no.


So now I'm in the process of switching vets, and the oldest cat went in to the new vet Saturday morning. She's examining my old lady, and starts trimming nails. I'm thinking, Why? but I don't say anything. And then she says, "You do a really good job of keeping her nails short!" Obviously not a routine experience for her!


The dog is a bit more of a challenge. Like that first cat, she was a year old when I got her. Her previous had shown her twice, so I know for sure she was groomed twice during the nine months she was with that woman. However, the dog the breeder received back was ungroomed and unaccustomed to being groomed, so after a full groom by the breeder, I had to start more or less from scratch, teaching her to accept routine grooming including nail trims, while learning how to groom what was a new breed for me! And Cresteds characteristically have long nails with long quicks. But patience, persistence, and the occasional stop in at Petsmart for a nail trim to rectify any failures on my part have helped her learn to accept nail trimming, and we don't have to waste the vet's time on what should be a grooming issue.

5
by on 03/27/2009 11:05am

Wow!  Once a year?  Our dog gets hers trimmed every couple months.  We're constantly maniuplating her paws to keep her used to someone touching them (she's happy to allow anyone to lift her front paws up, a little more touchy with her back paws, but only tries to pull them out of your hand and then relents easily).  We don't trim her nails ourselves because they're black and I'm afraid to quick them.  But we take her in to Petsmart or the groomers every couple months to get them trimmed down.


The folks at Petsmart said she's pretty easy to do as long as you're kind to her and gentle with her.  So I figure she must be ok!  We don't ask our vet to do it.  There's no need.

6
by on 03/26/2009 10:34pm

Since the mini strokes damaged my already pathetic vision, I've become one of the once-a-year folk.  I think I've tried every type of clipper on the market, including the one with the sensor and light.  My girls know I'm hesitant now and I've hit quick a few times so they have good reason to be as well.  Haven't had time to read all the comments but will be back to do so.  Any other specific suggestions for the vision impaired would be helpful and appreciated.  (PS: Both my girls are more than the average, well great, groomer can handle.  Shibas are rather notorious for screaming during nail clipping and being banned by groomers.  The Lab is terrified of virtually every other dog on the planet and is dog aggressive since my strokes.)

7
by on 03/26/2009 04:42pm

I once asked an animal communicator why dogs dislike their nails being trimmed. She said that to dogs, it is their personal space. Much like our genitalia is personal space. I didn't ask if they felt that forced nail trimming was akin to rape but  I suspect they see it that way.


Most of the time it is that they are sensitive to having their feet messed with, not necessarily just the nails. My Rottweiler dislikes her nail trims to the point that if I get two nails per session, I am happy. I recently went to a new groomer who managed to actually trim six nails. Her "trick"? She acknowledged Jo didn't like it and handled her feet as little as possible. Three nails while in the tub, three nails later. Heck yeah we're going back!

8
by on 03/26/2009 04:26pm

Mitsu -- Thanks! I am definitely going to try that! I'll report back too if it's a success.

9
by on 03/26/2009 02:02pm

My dogs come running when I tell them we are cutting toes, because they want the biscuit that comes after...........

I've had two that we had to work to get to that point.

A 12-week-old puppy, who had been quicked ON EVERY TOE before I got her. She struggled like a mad thing. It took three people to cut her toes. Did I say she was a corgi? Anyway, we discovered by trying everything that if my husband held her
suspended (vertical, with his hands around her chest), she would just dangle limply and I could cut with no trouble. Any support under her feet and she would revert to struggling, but dangled, no problem.

After several weeks of that, she got used to it (I SO agree with those who have said that once they realize that you WILL do it, and then give them a biscuit after, most of them will adjust).

The second "problem child" was a beagle mix who had been stray his whole life, far as we know, until we got him at 1 year. He, also, would squirm so hard that he was hard to hold on to (and I was afraid I might inadvertently hurt him).

For him (too big to dangle by hand) we used peanut butter. A clump of peanut butter on a plate, a second handler with the peanut butter and a spoon. A small smear of peanut butter on the spoon, offered to the dog........ As with the ferrets and the linatone, he barely (if at all) was aware that anything was happening to his feet.

Again, over time, he required less and less special handling, and now is fine.

Both of my current dogs make it clear they'd prefer to skip the toe cutting and go straight to the biscuit, but they are resigned............

10
by on 03/26/2009 01:38pm

Us ferret owners have it easy when it comes to trimming nails:


1. Put ferret on its back in your lap


2. Apply linatone or ferretone to the ferret's belly.  Ferret curls into a J-shape to get at linatone.


3.  Do whatever you want to the ferret's feet while the ferret makes sure that no molecule of linatone is missed :-)


I do also handle my ferrets' feet often to make sure they aren't freaked out by having their paws manipulated, but I've never had the linatone method fail.

11
by on 03/25/2009 11:57pm

One of the best tips I ever read was to put a block with sandpaper on it next to the door and train the dog to scratch at the sandpaper when he wants to go out. I haven't tried it, but it sounds like a winner as far as keeping nails shorter.

12
by on 03/25/2009 10:52pm

I traumatized my Dog when he was a puppy. I was 14 I was trying to be a good dog owner but I just made him hate it more. Nail trims and baths. Its all my fault. As we grew up together I changed my ways and he now (15 years later) is comfortable with baths but he still hates anyone touching his paws. I never trim them. Ever. And no I don't think its abuse. I think it would be abuse to force the matter on a 15 year old dog. He walks outside on concrete and his nails get ground down that way. They may be a bit long, but not really. And all is well. I don't understand why anyone would force the subject if it isn't a problem. If his nails were causing him issues that would be different. In the meantime, if he's happy, I am happy! Though if I ever get a pup I would change my ways.

13
by on 03/25/2009 10:52pm

Oh, I should add that I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to a friend unless it really needed to be done, i.e., not simply for aesthetics.

14
by on 03/25/2009 10:50pm

Crystal - I have to admit that I'm OK with one of my dogs getting "cutbacks" during anesthetized procedures - it's difficult to keep her nails adequately short b/c her quicks are pretty long and it's a two-person job to trim her nails (doable, but definitely a two-person job). That being said, the last time it was done, she received butorphanol and ketoprofen as part of her premedicants, and was on Rimadyl for 3-5 days after for gum inflammation. I didn't notice any lameness, and my vet felt comfortable that the pain control was adequate. Just my two cents.

15
by on 03/25/2009 09:58pm

I agree, I think clippers pinch nails and squeeze the quick.  Not unbearable unless the clippers are dull  or the dog's foot is hypersensitive.  Dull blades are something else to be aware of if you clip your dog's nails yourself!!  Replace or sharpen the blades regularly!   Counter conditioning techniques don't work very well if you are really causing the dog a lot of discomfort.


I think some dogs truly have hypersensitivity or paresthesia (tingling, partial numbness, etc) in their feet - especially if they've got some spinal problem like arthritis, spondylosis, disc disease etc. this should be considered.  Desensitization techniques plus effective pain control can reduce the unpleasant sensations.


I use a Dremel and it seems to be so much easier on my dogs - like others who have posted here, I also have dogs who come running when they see or hear the Dremel, and while I'm doing one dog I have to elbow one or two others out of the way because they know there are ALWAYS treats involved wherever the Dremel appears.


But for people who really prefer using clippers, if you bevel the nail you will reduce the pinching effect and it seems much more comfortable.  You'll also be less likely to cut into the quick on black nails.  I've got some drawings of the process here:


http://gonetothedanes.blogspot.com/2007/09/da-feet.html


And nail trimming (like bathing) is one of those activities where I never "fade" the treats!  For the dog's whole life, he/she knows that when the Dremel comes out or I say "get in the tub" then abundant treatiness is about to commence.  It makes it a much more pleasant experience for both of us!


 

16
by on 03/25/2009 09:27pm

A follow-up: what about underwater treadmill as rehab after, say, a cruciate repair or an arthrodesis?


Me, I would love to have an underwater treadmill here at the house, but (1) they're expensive! and (2) I don't want to be arrested for practicing vet med without a license.  =7


Sorry for the tangent!  =)

17
by on 03/25/2009 09:14pm

Crystal: It takes months of Dremmeling/clipping to get the quicks to "recede"--and it isn't even guaranteed. Moreover, anesthetic Dremmeling beyond the quick hurts! when the dogs wake up. Unless the quick-length is medically inadvisable, live with the nails to the quick's length. That's often not cosmetic but it's almost always good enough.


Julie: No, I do not consider underwater treadmilling a veterinary procedure--no more than holding your dog in a pool would be. Asinine protectionism, I say. 

18
by on 03/25/2009 09:01pm

Usually if I trim the nails right to the quick they will receed, it's weird that they aren't.  I really don't know but I'm sure Dr. K can help.

19
by on 03/25/2009 08:51pm

Relevant Question!


My dog's nails are too long- well, the quicks are too long. I trim every week, as close to the quick as possible, but the quick never recedes. We also walk on concrete regularly. I've heard that a dremel can help the quicks recede, so I'm going to try that. However, if that fails...


My dog is due for a dental under sedation/anesthesia in about six months/whenever I can afford it. Could I have her nails cut to the proper length then? It would cut the quicks, obviously, but she'll be out. Is that something that is okay to do?


 

20
by on 03/25/2009 08:39pm

Oh, yeah, this is such perfect timing. Today's a short day (only until noon) and we had an appointment for vaccs, HW test, and nail trim, for a dog we've never seen before. When the son is setting this up (for his mom's dog), he says "She's really bad about being handled, especially for a nail trim, so can we get some tranquilizers for her." We respond with, "Well, we could muzzle her." He says "Oh, no, you'll never be able to get a muzzle on her - she really needs tranquilizers." "How about if we give you the muzzle and you can put it on her outside, and then bring her in." "Oh, no, I couldn't get a muzzle anywhere near her - she really needs tranquilizers." I wonder if he's a drug seeker for himself. We end up giving him 3 ace, saying give 1 1/2 two hours before the appt. (the other 1 1/2 was if she spit it out). She comes in and looks fairly chilled. We walk into the room, and the guy is worried, saying "I don't think this is going to work, she needs more tranquilizers before you do anything." I say, "I think we could get a muzzle on her, she seems pretty relaxed" (trying to use a nicer word than 'doped up.' By this time, I'm on the same side of the table as the dog, who is to my left, held on a chain leash hooked to a choke collar, and the guy is standing on the other side of the table, holding on pretty tightly. All the doc did was pull the muzzle out of the drawer (on the other side of the table), raise it up just enough for the dog to see it, and she lunges madly and tried to take a chunk out of my side.


Now, of course, this dog hasn't been to a vet in three years, and its nails are sickly curled and bent, so this nail trim is medically necessary, since the dog is having lots of trouble walking and fell on ice several times this winter. So, after an ordeal that was violent, frustrating, and scary for the other clients and patients in the clinic, and even worse for the dog, the guy, the vet, and me (and smelly and disgusting for the other asst. who had to clean up the pee, poop, and blood (the dog chewed on the chain leash and bit her tongue), the dog gets 2 injections (we tried a small dose and then another), ends up flat as a rug on the table, and requires a wake up shot to go home. This has taken almost 1 1/2 hours. Absolutely senseless, but they cannot do anything about the dog's nails themselves and no groomer should even try. We suggested a vet who could come to the home (and most likely tranq there), because we just don't want to do this evwer again.


And I think one of my dogs is difficult. Yeah, he needs a muzzle, but he deals with the process when it's on, just growling and maybe kicking out a little. He used to be okay, but has gotten curmugeonly as he's aged, and I'm sure the arthritis in his elbows makes it more painful than just a sqeezing of the quick.

21
by on 03/25/2009 07:41pm

One thing I appreciate about my boss - he would never put any dog or cat or his staff through some of the scenarios above!  A dog who is biting, peeing, pooping, anal glanding, etc, is too totally terrified, and that is something we will not do.  We only charge $7 for a nail trim, and many of our clients will come in monthly to have us do it.  Their dogs are fine with it, since they are used to it, and we give them lots of praise.  The once a year people?  Doc says no.  Then educates them on how to do it themselves, or to take the dog for a long walk on a rough sidewalk!


My dogs don't mind the dremel, thought my schnauzer screams if I use a clipper - so it doesn't come out often.  The schnauzer also has anal gland issues if he gets any people food at all, so, when the time comes, my husband (who is the one who gives him pizza crusts) gets to hold him while I express.  We've found that our highly food motivated dog will submit willingly if he is allowed to lick a small piece of liver in my husband's hand while I'm expressing the glands.  I'll have to try it with the nails too!

22
by on 03/25/2009 07:21pm

Question for Dr. K: do you consider underwater treadmill as a veterinary medical procedure?  The state of Ohio does, even though we use it for conditioning purposes more than anything.


Second, about nail trimming: the trick for me is to start them early, and ALWAYS WIN. Even if you are just shaving a teensy sliver off each nail. It helps if you start with the dog as a pup, but I acquired my first whippets when they were 4, and once they learned they would never shake me, it was hunky-dory after that. My puppy (now 5) was trained this way and although it's not something any of the dogs enjoy, it doesn't require wrestling or muzzles.


I prefer to use the dremel, but it does get hot after a few paws. I will definitely have to try the canned cheese trick, Nita -- sounds like a good idea!

23
by on 03/25/2009 07:16pm

I'll readily admit to be continually baffled by the whole debate.



Nail trimming, tooth brushing, bathing... Last time I checked, humans dictate what happens, and the dogs must comply.



I'll never forget arriving at my friend's new townhouse we'd agreed to share during a few years of university. The very day I was moving-in, she asked for my help in bathing her Doberman. 'Help,' I wondered. What sort of help do you need in giving a dog a warm, soothing, 10-minute massage? (It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine, that people do things that make their dogs hate being bathed when, if introduced and done correctly, bathing is actually a really enjoyable experience for dogs.) Already a pretty experienced dog trainer at that point, the very next day I spent maybe 20 minutes working with the dog. When my friend arrived home, I asked her to watch as I commanded her dog to "shower", at which point the dog happily ran into the shower, with the water running. ...20 minutes! Even she couldn't protest she didn't have 20 minutes to train her dog. With countless similar experiences under my belt, no one can tell me that dogs "hate" being bathed. They may hate the things owners do surrounding bath time, but I haven't come across a dog that couldn't readily learn to accept, and even enjoy, being bathed.



So, I'd say the same thing about nail trimming and tooth brushing.



Tooth brushing reminds me of another anecdote. I remember being at my cottage with several family members, when my sister was admonishing my niece for not brushing her teeth. Over and over again she told her to brush her teeth, which my niece basically ignored. Since I brush my dog's teeth every day, I couldn't resist what I knew would be an obvious juxtaposition: my dog happily having her teeth brushed. My dog loves her toothpaste so much (and likely all the praise she receives around tooth brushing) that I don't even have to call her. I simply turn on her electric tooth brush, and she comes running.



Well, I have similar stories about nail trimming.



I trim my dogs' nails once a week (usually just prior to their weekly baths...typically Fridays). Invariably, any visiting dogs, over the years, have arrived with terribly neglected nails. Since I can't stand the click, click, click on my hardwood floors, trimming the nails of new arrivals is almost perfunctory. But since they're usually not used to the whole thing (I've used a Dremel for several years now), I often secure them in one of the rooms I.E. with the door closed, in order to prevent outright escape in the early stages.



Once my dogs hear the Dremel running, they come to investigate. Whether it's that, alone, or when combined with my typical commands surrounding nail trimming, they're ready to break down the door, thinking it must be their turns. Dogs who never paw at any door can be found pawing outside the door when I'm Dremelling another dog's nails.



Do I think my dogs "like" having their nails trimmed? ...Not really. But they do like all the praise that goes along with it. And, when it comes right down to it, I decide what happens, not them. So if I want to trim their nails, then they're getting their nails trimmed. Dogs really must comply with their owners wishes, rather than dictating when and where they can be touched. That's one of the most common causes of dog bites: a dog who makes those kinds of rules for its humans.

24
by on 03/25/2009 04:45pm

Uck.  One little doxie came in for a nail trim.  I held him.  A tech muzzled him.  I fought that dog the whole time while a tech and a vet got busy on the nails, him trying to bite even with the muzzle on.  He peed on me.  He released his anal glands on me.  And then the owners didn't like the cost.  Don't like what we charge you?  Then do it yourself!!!


OTOH, all of my dogs lay quietly while I dremel their nails.  The puppy is still learning to accept it, so one of the kids squeezes canned cheese into her mouth while I dremel.  She's happy as a clam.  And all of my dogs get their nails done every 1-2 weeks (except the puppy who is done every 3 days or so just so she gets used to it).


 


 

25
by on 03/25/2009 03:58pm

I think you hit the nail on the head, Katie - it's just easier to pay the staff and forget about it. It's kind of a funny double-edged sword...on the one hand, I hate having owners peek through the door to see two or three of us trying to nail trim their aggressive dog. It's never pretty, with poo and pee and anal gland secretions flying everwhere, and a terrified, aggressive muzzled dog screaming bloody murder. They inevitably look horrified, as if we're "roughing their dog up". On the other hand, I almost WANT them to see, to see how absolutely ridiculous they've allowed the situation to become because they won't take our suggestions regarding desensitization seriously. Ugh, and my clinic LOVES prophylactic anal gland expression - after all, owners are willing to pay $13 for a nail trim and $19 for anal gland expression - that's $32 worth of profit with very little used in the way of supplies. I personally feel that at least half of the anal gland expressions I do aren't necessary at all - and wonder if I'm doing more harm than good. I'd be over the moon if I never had to do either again.

26
by on 03/25/2009 03:43pm

I have two GSDs. My big male that I got as a fear-aggro two and a half year old just lays there and looks sad now. My neurotic female that we got at 8 months and completely touch shy sometimes requires me to lean on her while I dremel the nails for their weekly trim. She's the one with black, bear-like claws that grow like weeds, naturally enough. Some weeks she just lays their, other weeks she grumbles and wiggles. Either way though, I can do both my dogs by myself, so they're not (comparatively) that bad. They also get their feet wiped off when they come in muddy, so trimming isn't the only foot-handling they get, which I think helps enormously. In-house TNTs are aweful and non-productive in dogs. In cats...well, oddly enough, it's very rarely so much of a struggle.

27
by on 03/25/2009 03:10pm

I hate having to fight dogs to trim their nails. It just seems so pointless. We stress your dog out, hold him down while he fights and snarls and kicks and struggles (pees, poops, releases anal glands). We get hurt. He gets even more terrified. And this is a good thing.... how?? It just doesn't seem right. And yet for all the clients I talk to about how to teach their dogs to tolerate nail trimming better, so very few seem even mildly interested. Why bother, when we can manhandle the dog for $20 and a whole lot less of their time? Sigh.

28
by on 03/25/2009 03:04pm

When you gotta do what you gotta do --


I have a vertical sling/harness for getting the SAR dogs into and out of caves and over cliffs, etc.


When the dog is suspended, she typically goes passive.


I had a foster come in who had never been exercised, had toenails like scimitars.  And had, of course, never been trained to accept handling of any kind.


I strapped her into the harness and hoisted it over a beam -- SURPRISE --  snip snip snip, all done before she knew it.


By the time she needed the next trim, I'd trained her to accept handling.


Failing to train a pup to accept toenail trims is just negligence.


I have one (born here) who is convinced I'm cutting her feet off, despite all her early conditioning.  But even she just has to suck it and get trimmed -- every week or ten days.


I agree that you should refer trims to groomers, and that groomers should charge proportionate to the dog's hysteria and violence.

29
by on 03/25/2009 02:45pm

I know. You can't win and you can't break even it seems sometimes.

30
by on 03/25/2009 02:37pm

But Doc, think of all your clients who recommend you to friends and aquaintances.


"She's so super she even trims Lassie and Garfields claws! We highly recomend her!"


 

31
by on 03/25/2009 02:35pm

Once a year?? I can't imagine it. Radar gets most of his trims either by me, or at PetSmart, but if I do have a vet visit and it's time, I will ask them to do it. I handle his paws a lot, and I'm slowly getting him used to a dremel tool. (There are treats involved.) He's good about it, just squirmy.

32
by on 03/25/2009 02:30pm

Our vet did a nail trim the first couple of visits after we got our puppy. She explained to us what she was doing and she suggested that at least once a day we touch puppy everywhere, especially his feet, while giving him treats, so that the pup wouldn't be afraid to be handled everywhere.


Now I do it myself with the dremel. It's definitely not Kasey's favorite activity, but with a peanut butter filled Kong he's extremely tolerant of it. Watch your fingers with the dremel though! I had a nice "rug burn" type mark on my pinky from last time when I accidently dremelled myself. :O)

33
by on 03/25/2009 02:21pm

based on specific reactions from a couple of my dogs, i became convinced that nail trimmers pinch the quick. i tried different styles with varying results, none satisfactory. and it is impossible to gauge where the quick is on black toe nails!

i then started using a pedipaws. ate batteries, and soon began getting louder and louder ( 8 dogs). dogs that had calmed down became concerned about the noise.

i dug out my dremel and the extension accessory. in just a few times, nail trims went from needing to physically restrain all the dogs, to only two of the most fearful. And they too, are calming down.

i still think pet nail trimmers pinch the quick, and while it may not actually hurt, it sets up a reaction chain that increases in intensity. (the dog reacts, the human reacts, the dog reacts, ...)

i would agree with the doc, that trimming nails once a year is unnecessary on multiple levels.

34
by on 03/25/2009 02:17pm

Megan: I want your essay as a guest post! Pretty please?


Alykat: Don't get me started on the prophylactic anal gland squeeze. There's another routine habit that needs to go. Unless your pet needs it, it's a waste of time or worse--can cause inflammation and subsequent discomfort and/or infections. I only deal with the when there's a clear reason to. Here's a post on this.

35
by on 03/25/2009 02:08pm

I was so excited to see this post! I confess that trimming dogs nails was always my least favorite part of the job- worse than lyme dipping, pulling ticks off and draining abcesses combined! This was because, invariably, I would be soaked in feces and urine within moments as the poor dog screamed and struggled. My one severe dog bite came from a dog who popped his muzzle off during a nail trim! And I could think was, "Poor stressed, terrified dogs! What on earth is the point of this?" They would always be more nervous after the trim for their exams, or even next visit. I applaud anyone who does their nail trims anywhere but the vet's office, where they are already on high alert anticipating blood draws, anal gland expressions and vaccinations, which always pale in comparison to the dreaded NAIL TRIM!

36
by on 03/25/2009 02:05pm

@ Sarah: have you tried clothes pins to immobilize the cat for clppings? One of my 2 cats, Neko, is really chill about having her nails trimmed, and does not give any trouble at all. Priya, however, hates being held and will kick hard enough for me to lose my grip on her, and run away from me. I read in Cat Fancy, that you can use 2 clothes pins to their scruff, and it works! Priya just lies down, and lets me clip her nails. When the pins come off, she hops up and goes about her business. They don't hurt her, as she will meow loudly if something causes her pain.

37
by on 03/25/2009 01:45pm

@Ark Lady


You are absolutely correct that it is a training and conditioning issue.  If you start trimming your dogs nails and they are freaking out and you stop then you have just taught your dog a neat trick, because now everytime I get my nails cut I can just freak out and it will all go away.  I know a dog doesn't reason like that but it is a learned behaviour.  At first it is fear and then it transforms into something you taught.

38
by on 03/25/2009 01:34pm

My cats submit to a nail trim if they're in the right mood (sleepy) when I try it -- they're pretty laidback and this has been the routine since they were little. This is what I think of when I think of nail trimming.


But my other cat, although he submits quietly to a nail trim at the vet's, panics if I try it out myself at home. As soon as the nail clipper gets within a few inches of his paw, he starts loudly pleading with me and struggling. If I manage to latch onto one of nails, he screams, flails, contorts his body in every direction (and then some), and successfully escapes. I've never successfully clipped one of his claws, nor have I ever sufficiently protected myself from his defensive attacks. I assume he's okay at the vet's because he's terrified -- for all he knows, the vet techs might do something even more horrible to him if he doesn't keep still. As for me -- nail clipping is the most horrible thing I'll ever do to him, so what's there to lose? I'm not really sure what he's thinking. But at least he still likes going to the vet's!

39
by on 03/25/2009 01:29pm

My vet will sometimes ask if I want it done, and I am always happy to have an extra hand, but it occured to me after the last time I had one of my dogs nails done at the vet, ( he was not well behaved) that it might make him afraid to come back (the dog, not the vet) so we handle it at home now all the time.


My friend has a dobie and the breeder of her dobie told her to pinch the dog's cheek, not unlike bending a horse's ear to distract..it doesn't hurt and it does work quite well....he's all worried that soemone's grabbing his cheek, he doesn't notice that his nails are all done.


it does require two people though....

40
by on 03/25/2009 01:19pm

One cat doesn't care, the other one does his best Sarah Bernhardt imitation when getting his nails cut. Still I do the front ones - even if I can only get one or two done of his at a time.

When they are going to be under anesthesia for teeth cleaning I do ask that both front and back nails be cut and trimmed as necessary. I find that the vet techs are able to cut much more closely to the quick than I would ever dare to try which is a good thing.

41
by on 03/25/2009 01:15pm

Hey, what a timely post! I am writing an ethics essay trying to argue that vets shouldn't try to claim massage therapy as a "veterinary procedure" just like we shouldn't claim grooming as a veterinary procedure. Just because it can be good for an animal's health doesn't necessarily mean it's medical or needs to be done under the supervision of a vet. Unfortunately (at least in Minnesota), a vet can't refer a client to a non-veterinary massage therapist since it would qualify as the endorsement of the practice of veterinary medicine by a non-vet. Pfffthh.


I'm also just ordered Dr. Yin's book yesterday- glad to hear it's worth it!

42
by on 03/25/2009 01:13pm

Hear Hear Dr K - I hate the once a year trim. What I hate even more is when the animal is trying to eat you (even with muzzle) and scratch you with those ungodly long claws and the owner is crying "What are you doing to my little precious baby - he/she is crying, your hurting him/her!!!!" REALLY....that is what you think. What I think is your to chickenshit to do it yourself and you dump on someone else (ie the vet) and then for some reason think your dog is going to understand your verbal defense and not hate you for making the vet do it to them. I would much rather not be doing that to your pet and I happily call it quits and tell them unless we find a less stressful way (for ALL involved) we are not going to continue.


well I guess I feel a little strongly about that post....guess I have had some tough ones lately. For the record I dremel my dogs nails every 2-3 weeks. My big 60# dog I have done since a 6 week old puppy and while I know she doesn't love it, she generally just lays there and lets me do the nails. My 11# dog also gets dremeled and even though I got her at a year old she is pretty accepting of it. I can do her by myself but it is a little easier if someone else holds her.

43
by on 03/25/2009 01:08pm

I believe many of the dogs get worse because the owners accidentally reinforce the dog's negative response and think that you are right to suggest they go to the groomer for the procedure. Groomers often can get the job done quickly and easily but you point about not creating a negative in the veterinary hospital is a good one.


My pet parenting students are encouraged to visit the veterinary office (with permission) to get a treat and a pat and maybe a weight check to help create an early positive experience.


The problem is that a negative chain of behaviors gets established making it harder to extinguish.


Early teaching to tolerate touch and restraint are important techniques that are overlooked by most pet owners...and those who teach them what is important.


Find me blogging at Ark Animals

44
by on 03/25/2009 12:52pm

Ahhh, yes. My vet, after once trimming my dog's toe nails said to me, "Well, the good news is that he is not visious or agressive in anyway, but the bad news is he is strong as an ox, stubborn as a mule, and REALLY doesn't like his toe nails clipped." It took my male vet, and 3 techs to clip his nails. I get my dogs nails clipped around every three months. Sometimes he's fine, sometimes he's not. But my problem with taking him to a PetCo type place, is that they can't handle him when he is in one of his "moods". Not only that, but they put him on the table, put that round connector leash around his neck, then proceed to raise the table. My dog weighs eighty pounds, and if he were to fall off the table with that "noose" around his neck...well, I just don't want to think about it. My vet did say that benadryl can help, but really it's only maybe once or twice a year that my dog channels his inner "bucking bronco", so we've adopted the try another day theory. But because my dog has problems with his toenails, I feel like I should add that in those type situations, my vet is really the only one I trust to handle him.

45
by on 03/25/2009 12:33pm

Sorry to double post.


Oh and I trimmed our Border Collie last night and on the last nail I clipped the quick....*sigh  There actually was a lot of blood (first time I've done that).  I was told to use corn starch to stop the bleeding if no commercial products were on hand, and I must say it worked right away.

46
by on 03/25/2009 12:31pm

In my uneductated opinion trimming only once a year is abuse!  We trim every 2 weeks like clockwork.  Our dogs absolutely hate it. One thing we have found that seems to help is a muzzle.  Our dogs have never been aggressive and have never bitten anyone or anything, but it seems that when a muzzle goes on our dogs they just give up and lay there, they would pretty much let you do anything to them at that point.  Not sure if this would help the others out there who have problems but it sure works for us. 


Long nails force the animal to walk in an unnatural way putting stress on the joints which can then lead to other problems.  People just need to suck it up and take control of thier animals.


 


 


 


 

47
by on 03/25/2009 12:26pm

Esmee, ah yes, the 16-pounder with 10 legs and freakish strength. I have one of those myself! :)

I find that daily walks at a brisk pace keep my dog's nails a nice length, but I'm probably one of the lucky ones.

48
by on 03/25/2009 12:20pm

Gah The dreaded toenail clipping…I can't wait to get a puppy and start fresh, it’s been a nightmare with my current guy whom we got as an adolescent. I've worked with him to get his front nails down to an acceptable length…unfortunately, or fortunately it’s a perpetual process as they grow back in about half an hour it seems like.

BUT that only came about because the family members whom I enlisted to help me started resisting almost as strenuously as he did to the whole hellish procedure. First my mom would hold him then finally we got my dad to hold him while my mom distracted him with treats but you know it was extremely aversive for all of us after a while. He's a 16 pound dog you would think how hard can it be?

I took him to the vet once to have it done and he came out with 2 nails trimmed...

Eventually I just bit the bullet did the counter conditioning and desensitizing work and now its much less unpleasant.

I do have a question though, for dogs who are extremely anxious about the whole thing do you ever recommend Xanax?

49
by on 03/25/2009 12:00pm

I admit to beingone of the "once a year" customers with my first dog. She was a big powerful dog and I had no idea how to go about it. She would shriek and carry on as if being killed! It traumatized all of us - vet staff, me, waiting clients. (OMG - WHAT are they doing to that poor animal!?!) I made a vow, never again!


The dogs I have now get regular trims - every couple of weeks. The rescues get their nails trimmed on schedule, even if I have to ask a family member to hold while I clip. I understand how important it is for them to be well groomed and a nail trimming is just part of that.


That said, I am still amazed at long time dog owners whose dogs have long claws - and the answer, oh, yeah, I should get to that. Um, no time like the present!

LEAVE COMMENTS

Connect with Facebook or login to leave comments.


About fully vetted

Patty Khuly, VMD, MBA

Photo of Dr Khuly

Dr. Khuly is a former petMD blogger and small animal veterinarian in Miami, Florida, where she practices medicine at Sunset Animal Clinic and serves on the board of the South Florida Veterinary Medical Association. She is a graduate of Wellesley College, the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine, and The Wharton School of Business.

As a significant sideline, she writes...a lot. She authors pet health columns for USA Today, The Miami Herald and Vetstreet. She also writes a popular monthly column for Veterinary Practice News and serves as regular contributor to Veterinary Economics, The Bark, and the Veterinary News Network.

Dr. Khuly lives in South Miami with her brood of hens, goats, dogs, cats...and humans.

Subscribe to Fully Vetted

Most Read Fully Vetted Articles

Check Your Pet Food Bags!
The recall of pet foods manufactured at a Diamond Pet Food plant in Gaston, S.C....
READ MORE
No Excuse for Skipping Rabies Vaccination
The Carlsbad, New Mexico area just suffered through one of the worst rabies outbreaks...
READ MORE
Any Dog Can Bite
May 20-26 is National Dog Bite Prevention Week. Being bitten is just one of the...
READ MORE
A New Link Between Pet and Human Health
A study appearing in the journal Emerging Infectious Diseases points to a new link...
READ MORE

Most Commented Articles

No Excuse for Skipping Rabies Vaccination
The Carlsbad, New Mexico area just suffered through one of the worst rabies outbreaks...
READ MORE
Does Horse Racing Deserve Your Support?
I breathed a big sigh of relief on the evening of Saturday, May 5. The 138th running...
READ MORE
Maggots: Thumbs Up or Down?
The weather is starting to heat up here in Colorado, which means that any day...
READ MORE
Palliative Care ≠ Murder
I talked yesterday about compassion fatigue, which often develops when caregivers...
READ MORE
 
MORE FROM PETMD.COM
©1999-2012 petMD, LLC. All Rights Reserved
x
Stay informed about your pet's health...and more!