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Dr. Coates is a veterinarian based in the other “Sunshine State” – that's Colorado to the rest of you – where she lives and plays with a varied range of animals. She shares her professional and personal experiences, Monday through Friday, here on petMD's blog, the Fully Vetted. Log in for your daily dose of her insight and wisdom.

 

Too old for treatment? Aging pets and medical decision-making

September 25, 2008 / (39) comments


This is a tough one. And it’s a biggie. How old an animal happens to be makes a huge difference for how the pet’s medical condition is interpreted and assessed as well as for how diagnostic and treatment resources are allocated. But is that fair?

Owners, veterinarians, family, friends and society at large are all responsible for how we see our aging pets. Creaky, rickety older guys are part of all our history. We know that older animals start acting sluggish and slow and that they’re more likely to suffer disease. But does that mean they don’t deserve to be treated for these simply because it’s what we expect?

Take a three year-old cat with a urinary obstruction versus an otherwise healthy ten year old in the same predicament: Owners and veterinarians alike are more likely to treat the former case with more optimism and positive-minded aggressiveness. And there are two reasons for that:

1-Older animals are more likely to suffer from more complex underlying factors such as tumors and already compromised kidneys. And…

2-Young ones are perceived to have “their lifetimes ahead of them.”

To these points I’ll offer two corresponding rebuttals:

1-We can’t possibly make assumptions about underlying health concerns (in either case) until we take a closer look. Both animals deserve the same level of care until the basics can be assessed and decisions can be made about choosing to proceed. And yet our human biases always manage to rear their ugly heads, even if we think they don’t.

2- Don’t none of us know how long we have.

This latter one is the more insidious issue. I like to call it the “lifetime factor.” Pets under five get the biggest boost from this bias while ones over ten get the most flak from it.

Our human perception of their “time left on Earth” pervades all discussions in these older pets, as if whether we treat them to relieve their pain or discomfort should have everything to do with whether they have ten, five, two years or one month left to live.

Sure, it’s a factor in which treatment options we choose. But this factor is often exaggerated out of proportion to reality based on how we as humans perceive the importance of animals relative to their ages.

Here are some examples from this past week’s work:

Hips on the fritz

I have two canine patients with severe, end-stage hip dysplasia. One is a nine year-old Rottweiler. The other is a twelve year-old Golden retriever. Both need hip replacements. Both sets of owners have the same concern: “Is it worth it considering how old he/she is?”

Well, when did you expect a hip replacement would be most necessary? For most dogs, salvage procedures like hip replacements come due after much wear and tear. It’s only the minority of extremely afflicted pets that require earlier intervention. And yet, come ten years of age, many pet owners are thinking sunset years = no cost-effectiveness for a $3,500 procedure (per hip).

But if not now, what’s to happen with those hips? Two or three more years of creaking around (in an otherwise healthy dog)?

Them: “But what if she gets cancer next year?”

Me: “And what if a bus hits her tomorrow?”


The hyperthyroid cat

Here’s another common one I confront: The hyperthyroid cat who happens to be ten…or fifteen…or seventeen-plus.

Owners often decline the gold standard I-131 treatment (a one dose treatment of intravenous radioactive material) for these emaciated cats with vigorous, speedy-metabolism appetites. Sometimes it’s a money issue—but more often it’s age concerns that seal the deal. “But she’s so old!”

Whatever the case, it helps to do the math: An average of $50 a month for the rest of your cat’s life with frequent bloodwork and daily medication and continued disease or…a $1,200-$1,500 one-time cure?

Even if she only lives a year, isn’t a one-time, complete cure worth it?

Apparently not if she’s fifteen. That seems to be the magic age for most of my clients. Though that’s the most popular age for hyperthyroid diagnoses (hyperthyroidism happens almost exclusively to geriatric cats), most draw the line at treating a fifteen year-old with an expensive approach.


Now, I understand that there’s a lot more going on than just an animal’s age—especially when you consider what it costs to treat these conditions in the “best” way possible. But it’s age that often becomes the excuse. As in, “I don’t want to put her through it at her age.”

And I’m of the opinion that this assessment's not fair. Not in cases like the ones I’ve presented. Not in the case of most cancer treatments and dental therapies, either.

Our responsibility to our animals does not decline with advancing age any more than it does for our aged parents and grandparents. Now, if we’re talking about unnecessarily prolonging suffering through feeding tubes and painful, invasive measures…I’m right there with you.

But when age is used as a rationale for declining treatments that could make the difference between comfort or cures and pain or disease…I don't buy it.

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COMMENTS (39)
1
by on 10/01/2008 10:11pm

Sidney, I'm so sorry about your little one!

I agree stress would be a factor.

When I was dosing my old boy every day and pricking him for blood, he was very calm about it all. It became part of our routine, but I know not all cats are that relaxed. His quality of life was good, and he knew how much we loved him.

(Not that yours didn't--just sharing my own story.)

It's definitely complicated, and it's definitely an individual thing.
Jen M.

2
by on 10/01/2008 05:35pm

Both my childhood cats were 21 and 19 years old when they died. They lived with my parents who opted not to treat their hyperthyroidism/diabetes - not only because of their age, but also because of the stress of the daily medication the vet suggested to my parents.

As someone who just lost her 1-year old kitten to an unknown (so far, necropsy results pending) illness, who has spent the last two months visiting the vet over and over, administering pills, liquids, nose drops, eye drops, even water to go with the doxy, I can say that giving a cat medication daily (and in the case of eye drops, twice a day) is extremely stressful for both the owner and the pet. It reached a point where my sweet boy would try to run away from me when I would get close to him, out of fear that I was going to force meds on him.

After this experience, I know that if either of my two other cats end up with a disease that requires daily treatment, I will have to think long and hard about whether I wish to put myself and my cat through that kind of stress. Having my boy run away from me, and me crying every night because I just was so sick of shoving pills down his throat and putting eye drops in his eyes (one of which caused him to foam at the mouth and hit himself repeatedly in the head because of the bad taste) is not something I ever want to experience again.

3
by on 09/30/2008 01:51pm

Indeed, Jenny.

If anything, I have found that paying to have the bloodwork done regularly has actually SAVED me money over the years by ruling out conditions that require more intensive treatments.

My vet is considered the "poor people's vet" in my area, I believe. What that means is they start with the least invasive, less-expensive options and work from there. Some people may feel this is not the best approach, but I feel it's one that allows lower-income pet owners a chance to save their beloved pets.

I also feel it prevents harsh and unnecessary treatments.

4
by on 09/30/2008 12:28pm

Jen M - that is so true about the lab work. I help moderate a feline iBD forum and we have a survey that we send out for new members - several of the questions are regarding diagnostics. I am surprised at the number of people that have never run a basic profile (CBC, blood chemistry, urinalysis, T4 if older) and are just jumping the gun to to think their cat has IBD. I always tell them to run those first to rule out any other possible causes for the cats symptoms. Hyperthyroidism and other diseases can cause symptoms so similar to IBD.

I'm also amazed at the number of people that don't realize that these should be run at least annually for older cats...In fact I work with someone that has a blind older cat that is not using the litter box...she has taken the cat in several times recently becuase it had fleas (first vet thought the cat had dry skin!!) and also a virus and she told me that it was never even suggested to her to run labs!! I don't get it! In her case she does not take the cats in for a regular check up so maybe the vet thinks he/she may not be able to get her to do the labs...but you would think they would at least mention it?

My vet always pushes us to run a basic profile every 6 months for my cats 7 or over. I used to think it was just to make money but the more I learn, the more I realize how important it is!!

5
by on 09/30/2008 12:08pm

Kim wrote: "in reference to the early post regarding the insulin overdose. Dr K, can someone explain to me why it is that vets don't recommend that people purchase at-home blood sugar test kits for people who own diabetic pets?? "

Kim, I find this equally disturbing. Once we determined my cat would need to go on insluin, I purchased an at-home testing kit, the syringes, and the insulin, and my vet taught me how to monnitor and administer the insulin myself. I had a log book for tracking his blood levels. He was tested several times a day. She consulted with me by phone--on her own time--to help me get his levels adjusted.

I guess, having read your comment, I'm pretty blessed, vet-wise!

Jen M.

6
by on 09/30/2008 12:00pm

Oh, dur!!!! I forgot to add this to my previous comment: The importance of bloodwork.

Whenever one of my cats comes upon potential illnesses (ie, symptoms of which we are not sure of the cause,) I always pay to have bloodwork done before I make any decisions. My vet's office is very good about pushing this.

The cat I lost back in December was 21 years old. He had diabetes AND kidney failure. He started on insulin only months before he passed away--we had been managing his health just fine (with bloodwork to monitor his health) strictly with diet. I feel that if I had not had his bloodwork done, I may have paid a lot of money for treatments that may not have ultimately worked.

Again: As someone with money issues, it's important for me to see as much of the entire picture as is possible.

Jen M.

7
by on 09/30/2008 11:52am

This is a toughie for me, but it's about money, rather than their age. When I come up against these kinds of things, I look at cost vs age vs quality of life with vs quality of life without treatment. I do not have a lot of money. We live paycheck-to-paycheck; however, age is never the only factor I consider. If there is a chance at my cat healing and living a healthy, happy life after said treatment, the cat gets the treatment.

8
by on 09/28/2008 12:47pm

Fontini: Your comments represent the opposite spectrum, that I refer loosely as the "dying pet scam". That is when it should be obvious to the health professional that your elderly, compromised pet has no chance of survival with any treatment or surgery and that information is withheld from the owner.

Sadly, it is not uncommon, but more and more companion owners are wising up to it.
My sympathy and empathy, I've been there too.

9
by on 09/27/2008 10:55pm

P.S. My dog was on heart medication for mitral valve insufficiency. The surgeon knew that because my dog's cardiologist was collocated. I was very concerned and I asked the surgeon if there was any anesthesia risks. He answered "I don't think so." Well, I trusted him, but I should have listened to my instincts. Hind sight. . .

10
by on 09/27/2008 10:46pm

lost my dearest companion dog in February at the age of 13! He died 3 days after his release from the referral surgical hospital. He was misdiagnosed, mistreated and died a horrendous death 9 (Addisonian crisis)! I did follow two generalist’s, an internist’s and a board-certified surgeon’s urgent advice to have him operated on for an intestinal obstruction or he would die! I lost it—anything that could save his life—age had nothing to do with my love for this little creature that had changed my life the moment I brought him home.

The reaction from the generalist and the surgeon when I was desperate to find out why he had died: “What did you expect? He was 94 (generalist’s answer), 97 (surgeon’s answer). Has ANYONE among the bloggers of this website gotten such a heartless and unprofessional answer from your vet ?

11
by on 09/26/2008 08:14pm

Wonderful and heart-warming comments from everyone. What can I add? My experiences ranged from one extreme to the other. The difference betwwen them was :integrity, compassion, and honored choices.

We will never forget the good choices offered to out old Sealyham, nearly 14 1/2 with health issues and painful glaucoma. We opted for gentamicin injection treatment, resolved the glaucoma and she went on for another 7 months. We were grateful for every SINGLE day.

The opposing pole? No need to rehash, new people can visit my site if curious.

It sure is easier though, for a young, otherwise healthy dog, to make decisions, when ethically informed.

12
by on 09/26/2008 06:02pm

My 13yo Belgian shepherd developed cancer. I did choose not to pursue any invasive treatments for several reasons, including her age. 1. her breed often struggles with anesthesia recovery, making surgery chancey in my mind. 2. she had developed a heart murmur a couple of years before the cancer was diagnosed, adding another level of risk to anesthesia. 3. the murmur had slowed her down substantially. 4. after working with a communicator, I was certain she was ready to go and simply giving me time to adjust to the idea.

As it turned out, she gave me and my other dog about 7 months to prepare. I supported her with nutrition, chiropractic, acupuncture, and TTouch as long as she wanted them. She only asked for pain meds about 2 weeks before she asked for help leaving her body (I kept working with a communicator to have a good idea of how she was feeling about her progress through life). I miss her tremendously. I know a lot of other people would have made different decisions at many points along the journey, but I am certain that I did what was right for OUR family dynamic. Our vets were very understanding and allowed me to make the choices after they gave me their view of the options and probable outcomes. They also honored my choices and my right to make them. Very important to me.

I think what is sometimes hard to remember is that it's not just a pet that is being treated. The pet is part of a system, aka family, that incorporates more than the physical aspect, and the whole system/family needs to be considered in decision-making.

13
by on 09/26/2008 05:46pm

Morgan: I'm with you on the I-131. cats should be in good metabolic condition--no diabetes, no chronic renal failure. most of our thyroid kitties are free of these issues, though, aren't they?

On early and often hip replacements...perhaps that's the way we should go. Thanks for offering your hospital's perspective. It resonates well with Marc's lament on frequent refusals for hip replacements until dogs are considered "too old" for new hips.

14
by on 09/26/2008 03:06pm

In regard to insulin overdoses: too frequently veterinary support staff are under qualified or lack the appropriate training. The fact that there are two sizes of syringes, U-40 and U-100, only complicates the matter. As a licensed technician, I would urge people to seek clinics that set clear boundaries between what a CVT/LVT/RVT does and most importantly what a vet assistant does. And ask questions about it! As a former vet assistant, I really value these members of the team, but if you are not trained specifically to do something, do not do it.

I work at a specialty hospital that does cementless total hips, and the majority of our patients are younger dogs, because we don't hesitate to cut a hip that will need salvaging down the road. We also recently had a 13 y/o dog with uncontrolled Cushing's, and we performed a bilateral adrenalectomy (adrenal glands removed), plus a cholecystectomy (gall bladder removed). Yes, this dog's recovery was difficult, and there was significant risk. But the goal was to improve the quality of life in a dog that could still have a few more years. Above all, it is the vet's job to offer all the options, and help the owner weigh the pros and cons of each, so that they can make the best decision for their pet.

It should be mentioned that I-131 treatment, at least as far as I've seen, will do little to no good if there is already moderate renal failure. The cat will just progress further into the disease as blood perfusion to the kidneys drops, or the cat will have a difficult time clearing the I-131 from its system. Let me know if I'm wrong on this.

And as for the "senior at seven" thing-this isn't to insult pets or their parents :) Metabolic needs change, and the likelyhood for disease increases. Maybe we should use a better term though, like "they're entering their golden years"? Yes? No? Think of it this way: the insides are changing even though the outside may not reflect it.

15
by on 09/26/2008 01:00pm

I just wanted to weigh-in that I, too, find this a difficult and puzzling subject.

Myself, I make no secret of the fact that I take the responsibility of animal ownership extremely seriously. Push comes to shove, and I'm going hungry long before any of my animals. And the same goes for any other necessities...and quite probably many luxuries, too. "A dog is for life."

My 19-year-old cat and about-to-turn-10-year-old Great Dane are in excellent health, overall (knock wood). A friend's Dane, of the same age, was recently diagnosed with osteosarcoma, as well as having developed a nice-sized lipoma on her back, to boot. Without judgement, we talked about our feelings on these issues. Our friends kept referring to the veterinarian's advice not to do anything, really, "...because of her age." So they're just treating her pain.

Yet I find this rather confounding. I promise you, if my dog were in the same situation (given that there are no other extenuating circumstances), I explained that I'd have my dog's affected leg off so fast, she'd be in recovery before she knew what was happening. As one veterinarian told me, "Amputation of the affected limb eliminates pain in 100% of dogs with osteosarcoma." I would have no problem with a 3-legged dog. And since we've said, all along, that our dog is going to live to be twenty (yes, jokingly, with a hint of hope), amputation might be the best way to get there.

Of course, I'd consider limb-saving treatments (like radiation), too. But the idea of amputation wouldn't be an impediment, and most certainly her age wouldn't play a factor, either. (The most common question I'm asked is, "How old is your puppy?" When I've replied 6, 7, 8 or 9, I invariably have to qualify that I mean "years" not months. At almost 10years, she's really not that much different than she was at 2 or 3. Maybe that should be the main consideration, rather than calendar years???)

Since (barring illness) it is not uncommon for Danes to live to be 10-13 years, nowadays, I think every day after the 13 year mark will be a gift for us. But, with 3 more years to go until that benchmark, we're still operating on the assumption we have another decade with her, so there's no limit on what we'd be willing to spend on her health and happiness. (Not that I think that will ever really change. It hasn't with past animals, that's for sure.)

As for my cat, he doesn't look a day over one. No one can believe he's 19. And since the world record for cats is 38 years, we're aiming for that (assuming a good quality of life, of course).

It's kind of funny when people go on and on about his age and how healthy he looks. I've heard countless stories of healthy cats well into their mid-20's, but I guess these folks haven't. We don't do anything special for him, mind you. He free-feeds a dry veterinary brand for mature cats (as of about age 11 or 12), with occasional tins of canned food, and the right to sample absolutely anything I'm eating (unlike the dog), plus he keeps himself scrupulously clean. We play with him, sometimes, but mostly he just wants to sit next to us on the sofa or in bed. He's an extremely easy keeper. (I suppose this is where I'd like to point out that I got him when he was 7-years-old, and about to be killed due to behaviour problems. He was on medication for regularly soiling his owner's home. He was declawed because of excessive scratching, at around age 2. I got the okay to stop his med's 'cold turkey' and that cat has been nothing but ideal since he popped out of his cardboard carrying box in my living room, 12 years ago. So it just goes to show, many behaviour problems are owner-created. As a long-time dog trainer, I have always said that nearly all are, when it comes to dogs, anyway.)

16
by on 09/26/2008 12:13pm

Isn't there somethiing to the fact that the older the pet is, the less likely the cells and internal organs are less able to handle surgery and other invasive proccedures. It seems common sence that a surgery that a pet could handle when they are 1 yr old might be much more distressing when they are 10+

But exactly when that line is crossed should be an individual case by case basis. there should be no hard line in the sand saying every pet at 10 is no longer worth working on because 'they can't handle it"

I recently decided not to follow deeper diagnosis and treatment for my 16 yr old cat. The reason being is that she had been diabetic for 7 years, had a pretty bad heart condition, and had been losing weight over the past year (they thought thyroid even though every thyroid test came up normal) If I had known what she had was simple I would have fought for her, but her case was complicated, and even to find out if there was treatment for her would have involved very costly and very invasive diagnostics. as much as it hurt to let her go, I knew that fighting would have hurt her even more, so I let go. But if the same thing happened to another cat of mine who didn't have the health history I probably would have tried. It is their health, more than their age, that I would consider.

17
by on 09/26/2008 10:44am

Unfortunately many of my colleagues will perpetuate the "too old" misconception. I have many clients that were told by their previous Vet that their pet was too old for a non-invasive treatment such as dental care. These pets walked around in pain with loose teeth and infected mouths. I treated them and in nearly all cases the owners remarked that their pet acted like a puppy/kitten again. If clients ask if their pet is too old for something, I reply that there is no age where we quit trying to help a pet. We look at the whole picture of the individual pet, assess risks and benefits to come up with a treatment plan best for that pet. Old age is not a disease. Too many Veterinarians are living in the past.

18
by on 09/26/2008 10:22am

As a surgeon that performs hip replacements in dogs (and cats), I have to say that there is a feeling among joint replacement surgeons that Rimadyl and other NSAIDs are amongh the worst things that can happen to a dog's hips. Statisticaly, before Rimadyl (the first NSAID approved for dogs) was released, dogs were getting hip replacements at an earlier age. The year Rimadyl came out, the average age at surgery skyrocketed, as people found they could take a wait-and-see attitude. Now we see that by the time the NSAIDs fail, and people realize they must proceed with the surgery, many feel the dogs are now too old. Big picture, dogs hobble around on Rimadyl for years, then when they can no longer stand it, they are "disqualified" from a hip - therefore they never really get freedom from their hip pain. I am an advocate for early hip replacements for this and other reasons, not the least of which is that they usualy work wonderfuly well.

As for a hip replacement being cruel in an elderly dog, I submit that a dog will feel much less pain after the surgery than they would without. That is a straightforward assessment of magnitude of pain that has been supported by many studies, human and canine. So, an objective observer would find that not performing a hip replacemnt in an elderly dog is what is cruel.

19
by on 09/26/2008 09:35am

I have to say that this is a great discussion. Aside from your raising a lot of smaller issues I wish I could address in more detail, I believe all your comments strike to the heart of the issue: at what age is it cruel to put animals through surgery or other invasive treatments?

Lest you believe I'm advocating a lot of stressful heroics, let me point out that in these cases I'm talking about older pets who are otherwise in great shape. I'm confining my recommendations to pursue treatment to patients whose disease, if allowed to progress, is far more stressful than the treatment itself.

There are limits, however. For example, the twelve year-old Golden in my story went to see the surgeon yesterday for a possible hip replacement. Turns out the surgeon found that her elbows were in worse shape than I had thought. The recommendation? Hip replacement is the recommendation but another disease is likely to consume her within the year--and we don't replace dog elbows yet (next year the technology should be available out of university settings).

Under current conditions, a hip replacement might not help this dog tremendously. We clearly have to look at all the factors. But that doesn't keep me from underlining my point:

Treatment decisions for geriatric pets should not be declined on the sole basis of age--not when so many other individual patient factors need to be taken into account.

Case in point: Even if my Sophie has only one more year to live after her intensive radiation treatments this summer, at least I know that the time she has left is valuable to her (more than a tenth of her life, hopefully) and that she's comfortable (a normal dog by all measures). If I'd decided that ten was too old, she'd be living on steroids in a moderate state of decrepitude.

But I do respect everyone's need to make up their own mind. I just wish that people would consider that sometimes the disease IS worse than the treatment--even when it comes to the old ones.

20
by on 09/26/2008 09:18am

pelican: There are other surgical methods for treating hips. These methods are not so hardware intensive or drastic. We tend to go for these if we can because they achieve excellent results when performed on the right patients. Unfortunately, they require dogs to be either young or well-muscled, depending on the procedure. After the hips devolve beyond a certain point, however, the hip replacement is the only measure we have available to us. We tend not to jump into it, however, until the pet appears to really need it. After all, some pets may have truly nasty looking hips, but they get along quite well, nonetheless, and may well do so for the rest of their natural lives without ever needing the new hip(s).

Hope that helps.

21
by on 09/26/2008 02:23am

I don't feel like my old dog is too old for treatment, but I do notice that the older she gets, the longer it takes for her to recover from anesthetic for things like mole removal and teeth cleaning (it's a month before she's back to normal, although you can tell her teeth feel better immediately). I used to get her teeth cleaned every 6 months (she came to me with severe dental disease), now I'm doing everything I can to stretch it out to a year.

I find that I'm much more interested in day to day quality of life than length of life. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't choose surgery, but it does mean I'm pickier about what she gets. I am actually advocating for a TEA, because I am reaching the limit of being able to clean her ears effectively and painlessly. But on the other hand, I'm advocating for being less worried about the effects of pain meds on her body (when acupuncture and chiropractic aren't enough.)

22
by on 09/26/2008 01:38am

I euthanized my 13 year old chow-lab mix yesterday. On Monday, he started vomiting bile, but was in otherwise good shape- I took him to the vet and initial imaging showed nothing (I was worried about an obstruction). On Tuesday morning, he was still in good shape, but the time I got back from work, he was sicker than he'd ever been. Imaging still showed nothing, pancreatitis was the working dx while the blood work was out on Tues night. My wonderful, incredibly kind vet allowed me to bring him home on an IV and narcotic pain med, rather than keeping him with her. He had a good night, but in the morning when I tried to move him to bring him back, he began suffering intensely and I had the vet out to put him down. A necropsy revealed that he'd had a rapidly perforated ulcer which led to pancreatitis. I think when I moved him on Tues morning I inadvertently increased the tear and leakage.

I don't think, based on experience with people, that he would have ever left the vet's after surgery - at that point, I don't think he could have recovered enough to come home, let alone return to a decent life. He was just so sick. He'd burned through all his remaining body fat and I don't think he had a single energy reserve to get him through the time it would have taken in that much pain to make the diagnosis, even if it had just been hours, let alone major abdominal surgery in the context of a massive infection. He was suffering so acutely and iv torbugesic was only buying 20-30 minutes of pain-free time after I tried to move him. If he was younger, I might have given him more time, because I think he would have had a chance. Younger people, at least, can come back from things that older people may survive but without any good quality of life (at least from a dog's perspective) after the procedure. But, he was suffering so much, I might still not have. It was horrible to watch.

Now, reading this, I'm second guessing- was I wrong?

I did think of the expense in the context of my belief that he was dying no matter what I did, but I didn't have a single problem going forward when a simple tooth cleaning turned into a $1000 orthodontic extraction adventure a month ago. He was in good shape for that procedure and it was clear he'd be better off after it.

Dr. Khuly, I also wonder why hip replacement for dogs is "last-resort." It does seem like it would make more sense to do it in a dog with bad hips when they're still in good enough shape to bounce back ... it seems like if you know you're heading there anyway, in two or three years, why not give them a hip-pain free rest of their life earlier, rather than later? The procedure in humans gives good benefit for at least ten years for most patients, which certainly is a good amount of time for a dog.

Thanks for your blog- I always find it interesting and helpful.

23
by on 09/26/2008 01:27am

"There is a big difference between giving pills like lysodren , having bloodwork done and having surgery. Even if lysodren is expensive. However for the dogs that do not respond to treatment, cushings is a nasty disease."

There is a perception that older dogs cannot withstand Cushing's treatment simply because they are old although if the treatment is done correctly it should not be "harsh". If a dog has serious kidney or liver issues (beyond what is caused by the Cushing's) then treatment is probably not recommended but age itself need not be an issue. With dogs with uncomplicated pituitary Cushing's caused by a microadenoma (tiny pituitary tumor) the treatment should be successful - when it isn't it is almost without exception because in some way it hasn't been carried out properly. A well-managed dog with uncomplicated Cushing's should be able to live out its normal lifespan with a great quality of life - some even live a bit longer than expected probably due to the high quality of general health care they enjoy. For a 11 yo old Lab this may mean only another year or two (still a good percentage of the dog's life) but for a 10 yo Mini Doxie it could conceivably mean another 10 years.

Although there are more medical conditions that make surgery a poor risk - there are more factors than simply liver and kidney disease to consider with surgery - the comparison is a fair one. Aren't we talking about treatment (particularly fairly expensive treatments) in general for older animals - not just surgical treatment?

24
by on 09/25/2008 11:23pm

There is a big difference between giving pills like lysodren , having bloodwork done and having surgery. Even if lysodren is expensive. However for the dogs that do not respond to treatment, cushings is a nasty disease.

again, I think the ultimate decision has to be the age of the animal vs. the treatment. Treating a cat at age 10, or age 1 vs. one at age 19 or 20 is much different.

same with dogs. Big dogs have shorter lives. Therefor decisions made for a dachshund who is 12 vs a lab that is can be very different and not always just about cost.

I have gone to that "extreme" with both treatments and money. It has not always been the best for the pet just to extend life. Quality of that life is much more important.

25
by on 09/25/2008 09:56pm

My little dog has Cushing's disease. She was 10yo when diagnosed and, because of the effects of the disease, she looked totally ancient and peed everywhere - even though a 9lb dog is not really "old" at 10 years. It would have been easy to look at her age in years and at how old she looked and think that it she was too old to benefit from the none-too-cheap treatment. Which just goes to show how wrong you can be - a year and half after going onto treatment (Lysodren) she is bouncing around like a puppy again - I'd love to have half her energy and stamina and she's got theoretically got 20 years or so on me in adjusted dog/human years.

My sister-in-law's dog was diagnosed with the same disease shortly after and they and their vet didn't think it was worth treating him because he was "too old" - very sad as I bet he wasn't really as old and decrepit as he looked.

To be really cynical, looking at this issue purely from a selfish point of view, if you have kids it is well worth giving an old pet good care - never hurts to set a good example, after all!!!

26
by on 09/25/2008 04:45pm

Yes - Kim. Exactly! I too do the 'geriatric' panels twice a year...which I do think is a good thing. But as you mention about the math ....seems to be middle aged to me, not senior.

I did do major exploratory surgery for my one in December at 8.5....the surgeon commented on how healthy and perky he was. Outside of the GI issues, he has been as healthy as can be. And then, of course, he had to be re-opened on Christmas as he was too active and had swelling.

Can't they come up with a different 'marketing program'? I understand the need to do regular exams and panels for cats (and dogs) as they age, but do they have to bill them as senior? Posters like that I think are part of the problem!

27
by on 09/25/2008 04:22pm

I lost my boxer dog Julie this week. She was probably around 8 years old, although we don't really know for sure (her age estimate was anywhere between 6 and 10 years old).
When I was discussing her with my vet last week, I explicitly asked for the gold standard in her diagnosis and care.
When I left the hospital on Monday, I asked to pay the bill in full, in order to have closure on this.

I found myself going over the bill (which is actually a printout of Julie's hospital file) over and over again this week. It is comforting to see that I really did everything that was possible to save her.
Perhaps because all this happened so quickly (just two weeks earlier I brought Julie to the vet for "simply" not being quite herself, eating less and getting tired a little faster than usual).

The day before Julie died, when her CT showed something not quite right in her brain (near the brain stem), I was asked if I want a CSF sample taken, even though there where non-trivial risks. I had no doubt that I wonted it done. As my boyfriend put it: at that stage, there was no such thing as not deciding- every decision was an active one, even a decision not to take a sample.

28
by on 09/25/2008 04:17pm

Must address the hip issue: Hip replacement is a "salvage" procedure, meaning that it is one of last resort. If a pet is still able to walk around without significant pain (using NSAIDS, Adequan, glucosamine, physical therapy, weight loss, etc. to minimize discomfort) thn we don't do the hip replacement. Only when pets get to the end stages of disease do we recommend it--if they're otherwise healthy.

I think there's a perception that human and animal hip replacements are similar--and they're not. Dogs walk more comfortably out of the hospital the next day than they walked in--if everything goes well (that's 80% of them for most facilities I know of). Humans suffer quite a bit more. It can require weeks of therapy.

Moreover, pets who are candidates for hip surgery are typically in a further state of decline and deterioration than most humans who get them (save the emergency fracture cases we see commonly in humans).

Sure, it's always a risk to opt for a hip replacement, regardless of species, but I'm starting to see my patients live long enough for owners to now tell me they wished I'd pushed them harder to get that hip replacement two years ago. Those words are enough for me to rethink my patient care. Don't you think?

29
by on 09/25/2008 04:15pm

Jenny:

LOL -- you have NO IDEA how much I just want to take a lighter to that poster each and every time I see it!! The same goes to every bag of "Mature" or "Senior" food that starts at 7+.

My Retriever just started to slow down this year. He turned ten. It's only been noticeable in the mornings, when he first wakes up. We laugh, we're not even 30 and WE'RE creaky in the morning. ;O)

Our oldest cat is pushing on 15, and she and the 9 year old look like a pair of 3 year olds. Clear eyes, great skin, healthy weight, white teeth, shiny coat... and can still outrun even your average speedy gonzalez-type mouse. They're playful, happy, and not at ALL what I would call seniors.

We, of course, have been running "geriatric" panels on them since they turned that "ripe ol' age" of 7 (who decided this magic number?) and everything is still normal on both cats.

The majority of my "old age" deaths these days seem to come in at around 18+. So it seems (if you believe everything you read, that you're a baby for a year, an adult for six, and a senior for 11. If you worked that out to human years, with an average age of 75, you'd be a baby for 4 years, an adult for 25 years, and a senior for 46!

Hmmmm.... can't imagine why that math rubs me the wrong way... ;o)

30
by on 09/25/2008 04:02pm

What a great topic...Hits on two things near and dear to me.....
1) I hate the stupid poster my vets have on the wall (I think it might be from the 2 times a year for life campaign but I might be wrong), that shows cats as elderly when they are about 8 years old. I have two cats that just hit 9 and I can tell you they are anything but elderly They don't act much different than my 5 year old - maybe they run a little slower through the house. I don't know if I would consider age as a factor ever - but I can tell you, not for a 9 year old cat. I would tend to think that regardless of the age, I would consider overall health always as the major deciding factor.
2) And one of the 9 year olds is probably heading towards hyperthyroidism. Still asymptomatic, although sometimes seems a little 'off'..can't quite put my finger on a description. However, his T4 tested quarterly this year has been 4.3 and 4.6. The full panel in the middle threw us off as it was almost hypo, but concurrent illness & pred probably explain that one away. I would love to do I131 but have to get up on my reading....kidney health, etc...

31
by on 09/25/2008 04:01pm

I don't think so much about cost but I do think about risk, especially with surgical procedures. My lab is 13 and just had bloodwork - no issues! He's in perfect health except for his arthritis (treated with metacam & glucosamine), thyroid (he's on meds and now tests normal), incontinence (meds were not helpful so I just use poise pads), intestinal sensitivity (he's on prescription food), weight loss (I'm always trying to get him to eat more) and cataracts (he can still see and gets by just fine). He's a happy fellow but he doesn't get around like he used to.

My fear is giving him a dental under anesthesia. I know a couple of people who lost geriatric dogs in routine dentals and I'm afraid to take the risk. I know dental plaque can cause problems down the line but the vague nature of "down the line" makes me wonder if it will ever be an issue.

When it comes to surgical treatments, part of my the fear of "putting him through all that" is that he might die in fear on a cold metal table, never understanding what was happening to him. This really haunts me. Whatever happens to him, I want him to know that he's safe with me in the end.

32
by on 09/25/2008 03:56pm

My father in law was told that he needed a new hip but was too old to get one. Also they don't treat prostate cancer after a certain age. I believe that after a certain age, you should look at quality of life. I would never put my 13 yr old dog through hip surgery. I've been through 3 TPLO surgeries on various dogs. I wouldn't do that to an older dog. I wouldn't want that for myself let alone my dog.

33
by on 09/25/2008 03:33pm

I think it really depends on the individual case.

I recently had a client tell me she didn't bother to have diagnostics run on her bloody-diarrhea dog at the ER vet, opting instead for euthanasia due to his advanced age. This Cavalier King Charles Spaniel was a whopping TEN.

On the other hand, when it was suggested to a friend of mine that she have a complete hip replacement done on her 13 year old rescue lab, she rightfully declined, and we kept him very comfortable for another eight months. When he began to show marked discomfort, she had him humanely euthanized.

Myself, personally, we do whatever is necessary... to a point. We run a rescue operation, and we've had limbs removed, repaired ligaments, dealt with bladder stones, set broken bones, etc, etc. We specialize in senior and special needs pets, in fact. With my own guys, who are all special needs, we also do whatever is necessary, keeping in mind that every dollar spent to squeeze out another year (such as the total hip replacement) means fewer animals saved. $3500 equals 63 pound fees.

Thankfully, my ten year old retriever with his laundry list of issues (from epilepsy to anemia to dysplasia) remains asymptomatic for the most part, thanks to hard work on our part (and our wonderful holistic vet) keeping up with his nutrition and supplements, and has the constitution of a four year old. But should he ever (knock on wood) develop a disease that requires a painful treatment and an exorbitant price tag, I can honestly say we would most likely opt out of such treatment.

One additional note, in reference to the early post regarding the insulin overdose. Dr K, can someone explain to me why it is that vets don't recommend that people purchase at-home blood sugar test kits for people who own diabetic pets?? That is the FOURTH insulin overdose I've heard this month. Just a few days ago I had someone tell me that they switched their diabetic cat from grocery food to raw after doing some research online. They contacted their vet, who didn't like the idea, of course, and who actually suggested that the food wouldn't make a difference (who are these people??). Four weeks later, the cat was still receiving the same insulin injections even though it was eating carbohydrate-free food, and - of course - went into insulin shock and died at the ER (we've found that some - NOT all, but SOME - diabetic cats who switch to a grain-free kibble, canned or raw diet can do without the insulin altogether, although this theory hasn't been tested as thoroughly on dogs due to the lack of doggy diabetics.. PLEASE see your veterinarian before making any changes to your diabetic pet's diet!). Please tell me this isn't because of testing fees!? This has never sat well with me, and even more so lately, with all of these horror stories coming forward. Perhaps a post is in order.... ?

34
by on 09/25/2008 03:27pm

I agree with LorrieM. $7k is a LOT of money to spend (mine or the insurance company's) for an animal that has already lived the vast majority of its life. Sure, the golden could get cancer next year, but what if it DOES gets hit by a bus tomorrow AFTER getting a couple of brand new hips?

As much as I love my dogs and think of them as my furbabies, realistically, if my Westie or rescue mix needs a hugely expensive procedure during their advanced years, I'm always going to look for an easier, more inexpensive out than prolonging the inevitable. The inevitable in this case being, the fact that I will outlive them no matter what I spend on their health. I'll do my best to give them a comfortable, well-lived life and spend as much as I can reasonably afford, but I'll be sobbing into my beer when they die eventually anyway. Doing so thousands of dollars lighter in the wallet won't make that pain any easier to bear.

And FWIW, I've spent around $10k already on my 6yo Westie, who had some doozies of health issues during her first three years of life. I'm not adverse to spending money, but not when the opportunity to enjoy the outcome is so brief.

35
by on 09/25/2008 02:41pm

Money seems to be such a big concern of a majority of the vets here (middle America), in that they seem to think that even suggesting anything expensive will cause a client to leave them, so they don't bring things up at all, or do so in an offhand, sometimes disparaging way, and the clients take their attitude as the way they should think about the pet. It's probably a self-replicating circle, though, in that clients so often want the minimum of care because of the cost, so it's not worth even suggesting anything else.
There's a new injectable antibiotic out that is effective with usually 1 or 2 doses but costs more for the vet to purchase and only has a 4 week shelf life after 1st use, and is meant for pyodermas (which vets see a lot of here), but a good number aren't even going to get it or suggest they could get it, even though it would avoid the difficulties of clients having to deal with pills 2 or 3 x daily for those 2 weeks, which I am sure a lot of people would pay more to avoid. Btw, Dr. K. do you have any thoughts on this?

36
by on 09/25/2008 02:27pm

It's an interesting dilemma for sure. I've treated hyperthyroid cats over the years in several fashions....I've seen most of them go on to develop diabetes making me wonder about that possible link..I lost one to kidney failure..turns out he needed that increased blood flow, and one to old age, and another to cancer. the cancer one had the radiocat, the diabetic cat had ipodate( she was allergic to tapazole) then surgery, the kidney failure cat had tapazole...and developed diabetes...
I am still "undecided" on the old cat hyperthyroid issue

the hips....I think doing surgery that extensive in an old dog is cruel. So I would probably euthanize if the dog was in pain and suffering. I don't think one more year is worth the cost to the animal or the pocketbook. It's very invasive surgery. On a dog who's normal lifespan isn't much more than the age they are at....but I would never let an animal suffer, so that would be my first concern.

37
by on 09/25/2008 02:11pm

One thing I have trouble understanding is why hip replacements aren't done earlier, if you know the dog is going to need them eventually. I've known of several young dogs who showed symptoms of hip dysplasia, but the vets recommend NSAIDs and keeping them going as long as possible before resorting to what they say will definitely be needed at some point, total hip replacement. If you're going to have to do it eventually, wouldn't it make sense to do it while the dog is young so he doesn't have to go through years of gradually increasing degeneration and pain, or is there a reason why it should be postponed as long as possible?

38
by on 09/25/2008 01:49pm

Thank you for making the comparison between older human parents/grandparents, and our pets. It happened a few years ago that I had one of each, and we treated them in the same fashion -- whatever treatment was best for their particular condition as long as they would not suffer pain. Heaven help us if we treat our elders the way some people treat their pets. If the vet feels that a particular animal will come through a surgery or chemo just fine, I say go for it. I've seen very old, very sick cats live amazing lives because of their devotion to and from their persons.

39
by on 09/25/2008 01:45pm

Re:

"Apparently not if she’s fifteen. That seems to be the magic age for most of my clients."

Hmm. That's interesting. My cat was nearly 15 when he was dx'ed with hyperT, and although the vet was pushing me to consider less expensive treatments, I researched and decided on I-131 which is a decision I made and pushed.

About 6 weeks after I-131, he was dx'ed with diabetes.

And 6 weeks later still a vets staff member gave him a massive insulin overdose.

Here I was insisting on the best for my cat even over the urgings of a vet that surgery would be just as good and then some vet goes and destroys him.

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About fully vetted

Patty Khuly, VMD, MBA

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Dr. Khuly is a former petMD blogger and small animal veterinarian in Miami, Florida, where she practices medicine at Sunset Animal Clinic and serves on the board of the South Florida Veterinary Medical Association. She is a graduate of Wellesley College, the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine, and The Wharton School of Business.

As a significant sideline, she writes...a lot. She authors pet health columns for USA Today, The Miami Herald and Vetstreet. She also writes a popular monthly column for Veterinary Practice News and serves as regular contributor to Veterinary Economics, The Bark, and the Veterinary News Network.

Dr. Khuly lives in South Miami with her brood of hens, goats, dogs, cats...and humans.

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