Subscribe to
Fully Vetted
Dr. Coates is a veterinarian based in the other “Sunshine State” – that's Colorado to the rest of you – where she lives and plays with a varied range of animals. She shares her professional and personal experiences, Monday through Friday, here on petMD's blog, the Fully Vetted. Log in for your daily dose of her insight and wisdom.

 

'That tiger didn't go crazy. That tiger went tiger!'

January 04, 2008 / (51) comments


From the beginning it was inevitable that lawyers would descend upon the San Francisco Zoo in the wake of the Christmas Day mauling of three young men. Though evidence of tiger-baiting and intoxication is mounting (eyewitness reports, a shoe just inside the enclosure with blood nearby, a vodka bottle inside the victims' car), it’s also clear that Tatiana the Siberian tiger was able to escape her enclosure altogether too readily.

 

Everyone’s talking about it, speculating wildly at times. And now the victims of the tiger attack are suing the zoo, though one is no longer here to take part directly. He’s dead of a puncture wound to the neck, among other injuries. (Ironically, according to one eyewitness report, he was the only one of his group not observed taunting the animal.)

 

Lions and tigers may look docile (well, sort of) from across a moat, but nothing beats a birdseye view of a full-sized tomcat tiger and his exposed, fearsome canines to earn your self-protective respect. Granted, this experience took place while the beast was anesthetized, but it was hugely impressive to this future vet nonetheless.

 

Five hundred pounds of cat is freakishly frightening when you know how much damage even a five-pounder can do when properly motivated.

 

Which brings me to an earlier point: Motivating tigers is not a bloodsport I’d recommend. There are far easier ways to earn your five minutes of fame and reach a hefty settlement than by taunting a tiger and having your limbs ripped off in a full-scale assault no unarmed human could ever survive. There seems little doubt that all three would have been killed in the absence of the gun that laid Tatiana low that day.

 

Enclosure safety in this instance was an obvious concern — and a huge liability in light of the dire consequences. Local expert Ron Magill (here in Miami) knows a lot about tiger attacks. We had a deadly one at our Metrozoo ten years ago. And he’s at a loss to explain how Tatiana could have made the alleged leap that resulted in her rampage, calling it, "unlikely."

 

Regardless of the circumstances, the zoo’s in big trouble. That’s in part why they’ve since raised the wall height to reflect newer standards for tiger enclosures (a full four feet higher than the original wall).

 

That’s also why the lawyers were circling overhead about three minutes after the tragedy, jockeying for position as they plotted in their first-year law school-inculcated ways to argue that the zoo’s animals represent an “attractive nuisance.”

 

A lot of us wildlife defender-types are apprehensive about the mess the lawyers may make of this debacle. I feel like Horton on the sidelines, already imagining the crescendo of the mob chant. The strains of, “Kill that dust speck!” are rising into the air as I write, just in time to condemn tigers who attack (for any reason) to a speedy death by dart and pink juice cocktail.

 

Tatiana herself attacked a zookeeper last year. It will surely be argued that she should have been euthanized after she’d proved her penchant for violence. She was just being a tiger, they'd sagely concluded, ultimately granting her a stay of execution. Will the same standard apply after the attorneys in this case get through with the zoo or will all of Whoville suffer the consequences of a newly-imposed one-strike policy?

 

Yet if polled, no keeper would back such a policy. They see these creatures close up every day and they know exactly what they can do. Watching a tiger tear into a ten-pound hunk of horseflesh is enough to raise the hairs on the back of anyone’s neck. There’s consequently no delusion on their part about the danger these creatures pose. And when tigers do attack humans, their caretakers are always the first to defend them.

 

To wit, ten years ago a keeper at Miami’s MetroZoo was killed by a tiger’s swift bite to the back of the neck. His express wish that no tiger ever be euthanized [as a result of exercising innate behavior against a human] spared that animal’s life. After all, given half a chance there’s no tiger unwilling to commit a Tatiana-style atrocity.

 

There’s no escaping the reality of this case: One human is dead. Two others were severely mauled. One tiger is dead. It’s a tragedy that could have been avoided — though we don’t yet know how; the criminal investigation is still ongoing.

 

Yet when the collection of facts surrounding this case comes to light. I hope we can all sit down to assess the damage using some higher math: What’s a human worth? What’s a tiger worth? What percentage of the blame lies with the zoo and how much with the humans involved? How does all that add up?

 

To that point, here's a fact that has been eluding the media frenzy over the past week: Ecologically speaking, one endangered Siberian tiger is arguably priceless in terms of her genetic impact on the survival of her entire species. Will the humans be held liable at all for their role should it be shown that their wanton disregard for zoo rules — not to mention the possibility of breaking and entering — led directly to the attack and subsequent need for firearm intervention?

 

That’s why in my wildest daydreams I envision a society where a zoo might effectively countersue the plaintiffs for their reckless ways, recouping zoological society losses (and the planet’s) for having been forced to kill a valuable creature. Ultimately, who was the “attractive nuisance”? It remains to be seen, but maybe — just maybe — in this case it wasn’t the cat.

 

Subscribe to Fully Vetted
COMMENTS (51)
1
by on 10/19/2009 01:49am

I am a first year law student, and this is pretty basic. Generally minors, whether they have a drivers license or not, are judged to be as competent as a child of like age and IQ. I'm guessing these boys were not on track to attend Stanford. Further, not sure on the law of CA, but owners of wild animals are generally liable for any injuries the animal causes; it does not matter if the injured party was somewhat at fault.

2
by on 05/08/2009 03:32am

It's the zoo's responsibility to attend to the welfare of their animals and their patrons. And I'm not talking about forces beyond their control here. These enclosures were designed and constructed by them and the level of interaction between people and animal was totally under their control.

3
by on 01/26/2008 03:23pm

Actually, I do think the zoo should have made the fence a lot higher. I've read in newspaper articles that other comparable zoos have much higher fences for the cats. Yes, the boys were stupid and I think that any of them that survived and it can be proven they taunted the cat should be charged with a crime. Why? Because once the cat got out in response to the taunting other zoo visitors were at immediate risk. The boys endangered others as well as themselves. You say they didn't know what would happen? Right. That's why parents teach small children about those things. It's one of the lessons we hope they'll learn when we take them to the zoo....that wild animals can kill (and not just cats). A teenager near his majority is either held accountable or he goes through life acting irresponsibly and without regard to the safety of others. Of course, at some point,such iirresponsible teenagers will probably end up dead or in prison. A high price for society to pay for the consequences of lazy, negligent parenting and/or a culture that encourages teenagers to disregard parental teaching.

4
by on 01/18/2008 02:16pm

For anyone still following this story.... at least one of the victims taunted the tiger.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/mauling-victim-taunte...

From the article: "One of the three victims of San Francisco Zoo tiger attack was intoxicated and admitted to yelling and waving at the animal while standing atop the railing of the big cat enclosure, police said in court documents filed Thursday."

5
making assumptions
by on 01/15/2008 04:30pm

Christopher -

Thank god you're not a lawyer or a lawmaker,

Yes, I thank God for that too. I'm already pretty sure I'm going to hell, no need to make it official.

Zoos are nice places because designers and architects try to make the enclosures look more natural and less artificial, to even make the barriers invisible. That's why moats are more popular than iron bars, as the viewer can easily look past the moat from their vantage point and almost feel as if they are with the animal in the wild.

In this case, they should have made the moat a little deeper.

Those things are absurd, but so is three drunk teenagers in the park after closing harassing the animal and assisting in its escape. I don't know why it is so hard to believe that the tiger could have easily used the first teenager as leverage. If you hang 4 feet of leg down from the top, or even worse if the teen had climbed some portion of t he gate, you could make a gate of any height effectively many feet shorter.

I agree, they are absurd, but so is designing an enclosure that allows for an enraged wild carnivorous animal to escape from it. Why is it so hard to believe the tiger used the kid for leverage to climb out? Have you seen the picture of the enclosure? It's a bare concrete wall. There is no other barrier, unless you count what appears to be a 3 foot fence well behind the primary barrier. Basically, the kid could have sat on the wall and dangled his feet over it, but logic dictates that there's no way the tiger could have used the kid to climb out. You ever tried to bench press 350 pounds? I mean think about it. The animal weighed 350 pounds, the top speed of a tiger is ~35 mph (pissed off, probably even faster). Using those variables and given Newton's second law of motion, that means the tiger would have hit the kid with over 550 pounds of force. You actually think the kid could have remained on top of the wall (the wall that in reality was there, not some fabricated wall which some of y'all seem to think was there), let alone been used as leverage to climb out? Keep in mind, the kid was found dead well outside of the tiger enclosure. No, you don't have to go to ridiculous extremes as mentioned above, However meeting the accrediting agency's recommended height would have been a good start. This can be done in many ways while still preserving the feel that you are "in there" with the animals.

People have no expectation of safety when they blatantly violate the safety protocols. These idiots were intoxicated, strike one. They were still in the park after closing, trespassing, strike two. They purposefully circumvented the safety measures in place by hopping barriers and climbing the enclosure, strike three.

You are making a lot of assumptions here. First of all, you're assuming the safety protocols in place were adequate. I'm saying that if the animal was able to escape, they obviously were not. I've not read any reports that indicated these guys were intoxicated, just that empty liquor bottles were found in their vehicle. Also, they weren't trespassing. The zoo was not admitting any new visitors at the time, however it was still open to those already inside the park. As for the third, who knows. I've not seen/herd exactly what went down. And no, I have no doubt they were doing something stupid which was antagonizing the animal.

It seems in this case, that the zoo/law enforcement's reaction was even sufficient to protect all the innocent bystanders who could have been harmed by the criminal tampering done by those three boys. All three people who were mauled ASKED to be mauled and assisted in that happening.

Really, they ASKED to be mauled? It's one thing to be on safari and pissing off a tiger out in the bush, it's entirely another to be attacked after pissing off an animal that is supposedly safely secured. Don't get me wrong, I have little empathy for the kids who got mauled and I never claimed they didn't bear some responsibility. However, when it comes down to it, it is the zoo's responsibility to maintain adequate enclosures for their animals. This is something they obviously failed to do, and at the very least they should be required to retrofit all enclosures to prevent this from happening again.


Alicia - Hey, you think maybe if the tiger was sitting in those kids laps (like the cup of McD's coffee that burned that lady), they still would have taunted it?

6
by on 01/15/2008 07:55am

Stefani,

You understand what a few folks don't --- cats, whether indoor tiny creatures that run around our feet or tigers like Tatiana are all made from the same stuff. The only difference is, one type will maul your bedding, carpeting, and couches, and the other one will maul YOU if you make them mad.

7
by on 01/15/2008 01:25am

I don't think the tiger should have been killed, there should have been some other method on hand of dealing with it (fast acting tranquilizer . . . ) and the fact that she was killed breaks my heart. I'm not HAPPY the man is dead, or his friends mauled, but it seems that they weren't entirely innocent, whereas Tatiana by definition is innocent, she's a tiger. You dangle your leg in front of her and throw things at her, you are going to piss her off. My cats bite me when I brush them where they don't want -- the difference is, they are 10 pounds. But they are just being cats.

I'm mostly sorry Tatiana is dead. There are so few Siberian tigers left.

by on 04/06/2011 04:17pm

I agree and I'm not an expert in these things. I love animals very much and my cat only attacks me which is very weird.
It is not fair for Tatiana to die because, animals don't really thick as well as most humans.

8
by on 01/10/2008 07:54pm

Taunt a tiger, be prepared for the consequences.

I think the consensus is the little boy who died (well, he didn't exactly have the mentality of an adult, did he?) is a victim of Darwinism. Survival of the fittest = Survival of the intelligent. Countersue the parents for their failure to raise a responsible adult and for zoo damages, including a replacement tiger.

As for those who survived. Oh well. Maybe they learned something from being lucky. I doubt it. A shame the tiger didn't kill all of them before she was shot. THEN her death may have been "worth it." (On 2nd thought, no, not really.) Instead, she died doing what comes naturally. Then again, the idiot who died probably did what came naturally for him too. Doh!

The people who want to blame the zoo are being ignorant. Reminds me of the woman who sued McDonald's because she scalded herself on hot coffee. Does nobody want to take responsiblity for their own actions anymore?!

I've heard the arguments and they are all pathetic. If you're going to play with fire, be prepared to be burned.

by on 06/22/2011 05:31pm

Beautifully said and absolutely correct.
If anyone thinks they tough enough, cool enough , and drunk enough to taunt & take on a tiger....let the feasting begin!!!!

9
by on 01/10/2008 01:41am

Why is no one commenting on the real insight of this post, that is, the last two paragraphs? Frankly, I understand and appreciate the human tragedy in this, but I have trouble sympathizing with the human victims. Why do humans have such an inflated sense of infallibility? Granted, we're doing a bang-up job of pushing everything but pigeons and rats to extinction, but how long can we really continue on this way as a species before we empty the oceans, pave the continents and start fighting over the last remnants of unpolluted fresh water? If we could muster up an ounce of respect for the other living creatures we share our planet with, maybe these kids wouldn't have thought it a cool idea to test the resolve of a 350 lb., top-of-the-food-chain carnivore. Seriously, why not countersue? It would represent a refreshing change of priorities.

This whole thing reminds me of the first time I visited Yellowstone National Park as a kid. The park was in the middle of a huge lawsuit b/c some dingbat placed his five-year-old son on the back of a bison so he could snap a picture. The kid was bucked and killed and the father sued because there were no signs in the park indicating that the animals were not tame. Hello. Idiot. The world is not your amusement park. ARG.

10
by on 01/07/2008 02:00pm

Looking at the 17 year olds myspace page,(assuming it is the same CS, 17 yrs old from San Jose), there is no doubt that these young Wangstas were drunk and high as a kite when this took place. In the picture provided by the family, the boy looks stoned out of his mind, bringing into question what kind of guidance these kids had growing up. While it is sad that the young man lost his life, hopefully it will be a wake up call to the parents and his two brothers that there are consequences for stupidity.

Yes, the wall could have been higher, but this wouldn't have happened under normal circumstances and it's sad that some wanna be ganstas caused the death of a wild creature who was acting, on instinct, out of self preservation.

11
by on 01/06/2008 03:34pm

Chip,

Thank god you're not a lawyer or a lawmaker, because you've effectively dismantled the vital concept of comparative negligence. The law can dish out punishment in proportion to who is to blame, and rarely will one party be found to be 100% responsible.

You seem to want to go after the zoo 100% on this one. Frankly, I don't feel that's justified. To me, making the zoo pay is just like making the prison pay when an inmate broke out of his cell and injured himself, or when a robber fell through a skylight at a school after jumping up and down on it to break in. You shouldn't be protected from injury during the commission of a crime, especially a serious crime that will likely cause injury.

Zoos are nice places because designers and architects try to make the enclosures look more natural and less artificial, to even make the barriers invisible. That's why moats are more popular than iron bars, as the viewer can easily look past the moat from their vantage point and almost feel as if they are with the animal in the wild.

Let's take your example to an absurd level. To ENSURE that no tiger would escape, the zoo should, by your logic, make the walls as tall as possible and put bars all the way across the top too. You never know when a crazed team of acrobats just might climb the bars and space themselves out perfectly so that a tiger could grab on to their flesh and use them as steps up and over the bars. And you never know when someone in a helicopter just might be flying over dragging a big rope that just might land in the cage and allow the tiger to climb out the top.

Those things are absurd, but so is three drunk teenagers in the park after closing harassing the animal and assisting in its escape. I don't know why it is so hard to believe that the tiger could have easily used the first teenager as leverage. If you hang 4 feet of leg down from the top, or even worse if the teen had climbed some portion of t he gate, you could make a gate of any height effectively many feet shorter.

If we lived by your logic, car makers should be sued in every case of drunk driving, since it's feasible that they could install a breathilizer on every car; gardeners should be sued every time the wind knocks down a limb, since they feasibly could have secured every one with steel cables, dog breeders should be sued every time a dog bites because feasibly we could breed dogs without teeth or have them removed just like tails and dewclaws; bride builders should be sued for allowing suicidal people to jump off, since they could feasibly erect electric fencing all the way across and install floating rafts of airbags below.

People have no expectation of safety when they blatantly violate the safety protocols. These idiots were intoxicated, strike one. They were still in the park after closing, trespassing, strike two. They purposefully circumvented the safety measures in place by hopping barriers and climbing the enclosure, strike three.

Public places should be made to be safe for reasonable people, acting reasonably. That includes extra precautions for children who, of course, are wild and crazy. But that should not include extra precautions for people who actively try and circumvent existing and adequate safety measures. There is no ability to fully protect such people.

It seems in this case, that the zoo/law enforecement's reaction was even sufficient to protect all the innocent bystanders who could have been harmed by the criminal tampering done by those three boys. All three people who were mauled ASKED to be mauled and assisted in that happening.

12
by on 01/06/2008 02:42pm

Amy - you're still not getting it. It was possible for the tiger to escape from the enclosure. It's the zoo's responsibility to make sure the animal can't escape (with or without assistance). It doesn't matter that the idiots were taunting it, all that matters is that it got out. If this zoo can't guarantee that captive wild animals can't escape their enclosures, then yes it should be shut down. It's the zoo's responsibility to attend to the welfare of their animals and their patrons. And I'm not talking about forces beyond their control here. These enclosures were designed and constructed by them and the level of interaction between people and animal was totally under their control. If their level of fencing was adequate, why are they currently redesigning the enclosure to increase the height of the primary fence?

And yes, the figure isn't to scale - never claimed that it was. It doesn't matter though. Your math is a bit fuzzy though. Yes, 12.5 + 3.5 is 16', but you conveniently leave out the fact that there is a large ledge in between the two fences (plainly evident in the photograph). It's not like they are right on top of each other, so the wall is only 12.5' not 16'. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that the animal could have jumped up that 12.5' if properly motivated, and anyone who has ever seen a tiger stand on it's hind legs would probably agree. The fact it hadn't happen before doesn't carry much weight. Most people have enough sense & respect not to piss off a large carnivorous animal, even if it is beyond a moat and a 12.5' fence.

13
by on 01/05/2008 09:41am

Man has the ability to destroy everything good.

The 2 survivors should be shipped to Iraq.

14
by on 01/04/2008 11:10pm

Please, Dr. Patty, write a new blog right away! This has been a great one but clearly every feels very passionately about their own opinions on this subject. I'm not knocking it though, its good to have a strong opinion about where you stand between the human kingdom and the animal kingdom. That's what makes each one of us unique.

Write a blog on the psychology of each of the three little pigs :)

15
by on 01/04/2008 10:04pm

"Thousands of people have passed by the tiger exhibit on a daily basis for years and not been mauled. The risk? Not that high. Should the fence have been higher? Absolutely. But come on. There's got to be some personal responsibility in this. Yes, it's a shame that guy died, and it's a shame the others were mauled, but people are killed and wounded doing stupid things every day. This time it just happened to involve a tiger."

Well said, Katie. I can't get over the way human beings have the nerve to feel we are so much more valuable than other living things. If it wasn't so pathetic it would almost be funny.

16
by on 01/04/2008 09:22pm

CHip~You don't need to get into verbal taunts or start flaming this post. The SF Chronicle has a direct quote from the zoo director that says exactly that: the tiger needed some type of assitance to get out. For 67 years the enclosure was fine. Mostly likely in those 67 years, other tigers were verbally taunted by idiots- No one was killed. Clearly these boy-men took it up a notch and made some kind of unusual circumstance to provoke that tiger. That is what I'm reading and that is my opinion. CNN reported that there was a shoe and bloody footprint INSIDE the enclosure. The fact of that matter has yet to be made certain.

The diagram of the tiger enclosure you posted on the LA Times is not to scale (and your link does not work). If you do the math (12.5' + 3.5') that enclosure is 16'. The recommended minimum height is 16.4'. RECOMMENDED, not required. This zoo was certified by the AZA. If they felt that .4' was a deal breaker, then they should not have certified the zoo adn required them to change it. What on earth is to be gained by the SFZoo "getting the crap sued out of them"? Are your motives to see the zoo shut down? Have the zoo operate in the red and the animals live with less supervision/less care? Or would you just like to see more assholes like Geregos profit from the misfortune of others?

I'm not saying anything that has been presented from any side is 100% accurate, but for me it makes a lot more sense that the kids made this situation transpire than, on whim, Tatiana just decided to have herself a little 'fun'. No one knows with absolute certainty what those kids or the tiger did. You can prowl the internet to find reports and statements that support either side. I'm going on what I see/read and what my gut tells me. And my gut tells me that those idiots created a situation that got out of control. Yes, in hindsight, in this situation the enclosure should've been taller. Yes the zoo should do more to protect its animals. I'm not disputing that. What I am disputing is that these kids are in any way innocent. Once it can be somewhat established on legal terms what went down, we will be able to judge for ourselves just how guilty these kids are and what a tragic loss of life- tiger and human- this was.

17
by on 01/04/2008 07:55pm

Thousands of people have passed by the tiger exhibit on a daily basis for years and not been mauled. The risk? Not that high. Should the fence have been higher? Absolutely. But come on. There's got to be some personal responsibility in this. Yes, it's a shame that guy died, and it's a shame the others were mauled, but people are killed and wounded doing stupid things every day. This time it just happened to involve a tiger.

18
by on 01/04/2008 07:32pm

This story, in a small part, makes me feel happy that human evolution just might still be going on. Those tiger's genes were priceless; the genes of the miscreants who were getting bombed (underage) on Christmas, avoiding and lying to their families, and taunting a captive animal in a closed Zoo... decidedly not priceless.

I hope that forked tongue slime ball lawyer M. Geragos has as much luck defending the two surviving aggressors as he did defending that nitwit who killed is wife and unborn child.

19
by on 01/04/2008 05:23pm

This article from the LA Times has some pretty good pictures and descriptions of the tiger enclosure.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/californi...,1,140614.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california

20
by on 01/04/2008 05:22pm

Aside from all the argument, I must say that I am pleased to know that tigers still act like tigers :)

You can take the tiger out of the jungle, but you can't take the jungle out of the tiger.

21
by on 01/04/2008 05:08pm

Amy - no, the point is that regardless of what a bunch of idiots are doing to piss off a tiger, said tiger shouldn't be able to get out of its enclosure. And your second point is just nonsensical. How is a 350 pound animal going to be able to use a human to climb out of it's enclosure? Any animal of that size jumping on someone dangling over the fence would have just knocked him into the pit. There was no bloody shoe found in the enclosure. that's just a bunch of bs that's getting spread on the internet. The animal had no assistance jumping the moat, other than it's own rage. The facts of the matter are the zoo's walls were significantly lower than the guidelines established by the zoo's accrediting body. They deserve to get the crap sued out of them.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318709,00.html

22
by on 01/04/2008 04:10pm

Wendy~
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/

Idiocracy is hilarious. But also kind of sad in its apocryphal telling of 'what could be'. Lol.....

23
by on 01/04/2008 04:08pm

Chip~
That's not really the point. If it was an innocent child who was just standing there - then #1, something is really wrong with ther tiger. #2 The point of this is that these boy/men harrassed and provoked a wild animal and it's now being proven that for the tiger (who is not that big compared to true wild siberians) to leap over the 25-30 foot moat and get up and over the fence - it would've needed assitance (for instance, human legs hanging inside the enclosure to grab onto and pull herself up and over).

Big difference. And we'd have a very different discussion on our hands.

It will be interesting how the evidence plays out.

24
by on 01/04/2008 03:39pm

All of y'all who seem to be holding the idiots who got mauled by the tiger responsible, what if the tiger had attacked and killed a child or another innocent bystander? Yeah, stupid is as stupid does - but the zoo is responsible for making sure it's patrons (stupid or not) are safe from wild animal attacks. I do find it morbidly funny that it appears the animal stalked the morons who initiated the attack. Oh well, at least one of them got taken out before he had a chance to pass on his genes.

25
by on 01/04/2008 03:02pm

Emily,

Tigers don't have the same logic as said angered driver would have. Or at least, I would hope that a driver woulid have more logical thought processees.

Your line of thinking would have me counter your question with this question. If you invited 30 people and one tiger to a dinner party. Everyone sits down and puts their napkin in their lap and picks up their salad fork. Do you expect the tiger to do the same thing? No! You don't. You don't because that tiger is primative and all he is thinking about is getting to the food. He isn't concerned with all of the formalities that involved in getting the food. The tiger just wants to eat and will likely tear everything on the table apart to get to that fine filet mignon. Heck! The tiger won't even give you time to cook it. No formalities for the tiger, thank you, just the end results please!

The same is true for the SF Zoo situation. The tigers don't think about the mourning family or the scared visitors or even the fact that they might be shot for attacking a visitor, they just want the annoyance to stop and will choose the most direct method of making that happen :)

26
by on 01/04/2008 02:55pm

Just how did that bloody shoe get inside the enclosure? And has anyone else heard anything about two of these punks being found with slingshots?

27
by on 01/04/2008 02:54pm

let's construct an equivalent scenario: if you (stupidly) taunt another driver, or maybe just (stupidly) deliberately drive slowly to harass him, is he justified in shooting you? Maybe we should just let roadrage rule!

Zoos need to ensure that people don't harass the animals. But they are culpable if they don't protect their visitors from their animals.

28
by on 01/04/2008 02:21pm

I respectfully disagree on this one. Unless the perpetrators entered or in some way tampered with the enclosure, they should not expect to be mauled.

Because, like you said, it's a tiger. The stakes are high enough that the enclosure should be adequate for ANY motivation. Because where do you draw the line between 'taunting' and 'looked at him funny' and 'looked just a little too tasty'.

The only reasonable place to put it is cage wall. Outside, you're safe. Inside, you're dinner.

(btw, all for counter-suit and all that if they did enter the enclosure or in some way release the tiger - causing it's demise. And all for punishment for taunting - but it should be being expelled from the zoo, or possibly fines - not a capital offense)

29
by on 01/04/2008 01:53pm

Idiocracy? Wow! I gotta see that! Where can I see that at? Sign me up!

30
by on 01/04/2008 01:49pm

The kids taunting the tiger proves three things:

Common sense
Common courtesy ....and
Common decency

are not at all that COMMON.

They got what they deserved and I hope that even if they win a law suit, future employers will judge them for their absolute lack of ability to make good decisions.

Darwin award winners they are!!!!



But wait! There's still time for them to get their own show on Nickelodeon!

31
by on 01/04/2008 01:43pm

I agree with you Marie.

Have you guys seen the movie 'Idiocracy'? Cuz that's what we're headed for.

32
by on 01/04/2008 01:40pm

I have to agree with Wendy and Anna. (Excellent quote usage Wendy!).

While the SFZoo enclosure was not at the "recommended" height, these boys were harrassing a wild, endangered animal. That animal, most likely NEVER treated that way, reacted to protect herself as her instincts instruct her.

I do think is it sad that the young man that died was not seen taunting the tigers. However, did you see these kids that did do the taunting: [To also quote Chris Rock, "That's Right. I said it!"] Hiring Mark Geregos? Walking non-chalantly to their $100,000 Mercedes leaving the hospital? Grinning at the cameras? Laughing? Clearly these are not kids that have had to face many, if any, consequences in their short lives. This will be yet another notch on their belts. Slapping high-5's about it when no one is looking.

I hope that if the zoo can prove that tiger was taunted and at least one of those boys was inside the enclosure, that the zoo countersues.

I agree that the only good that will come from this is the possible increase in security for the animal enclosures.

33
by on 01/04/2008 01:36pm

Sorry, I read the comment I was responding to wrong. Slow down brain!!! :-)

Point is that they weren't exactly kids.

34
by on 01/04/2008 01:34pm

I disagree. There are old enough to have driver's liscenses aren't they? If they can be trusted on the road with their, and other's lives in that capacity then they are old enough to be able to make some good decesions I should hope.

35
by on 01/04/2008 01:32pm

Why is it that we as a society need to keep the stupid people alive? It's gone so far overboard that it is ridculous. Give them a Darwin award and let others learn from the lesson. (fat chance tho considering were talking about stupid people in the first place)

Yes the fence was found to be to low. But what were the odds the tiger would have lept it without that taunting motivation? If I were the zoo I would counter sue. And I would add video cameras everywhere to keep a watch on visitors from now on. (if only to protect the zoo's interests)

I feel sorry for the family of the killed boy but also sorry that a tiger had to die because of his friends stupidity. (pick your friends wisely should be another lesson here) It's a sad case for all involved I'd say. But I would also say don't be surprised if taunting a tiger gets someone killed! (or being around any wild animal, but those people know the risks)

36
by on 01/04/2008 01:26pm

Emily,

I disagree. These kids - if you want to call them kids just months away from reaching the age where we legally allow them to make important decisions like voting - were so stupid to taunt the tiger, they deserved what they got. Perhaps the mommy's and daddy's of America will start teaching their kids common sense and consequences. These kids grew up in that "no consequence" era and acting like a bunch of rogue jerks finally got the best of them.

That tiger was undoubtedly taunted. Unfortunately, this time, they got the short end of the stick.

37
by on 01/04/2008 01:24pm

EmilyS is right, those kids didn't deserve to die simply for being stupid. But let's face it, people are stupid everyday, and sometimes (rarely for the most part) they die. Yes, clearly the fence needed to be taller, but those kids taunted the tiger, and like the new title says, she was just being a tiger. Sometimes consequences are unexpected, I'm sure those kids never considered that tauting the tiger could lead to their deaths. However, I have to question what kind of person could taunt a wild animal in a zoo, and although I am sorry that kid died, I am still more sorry for the tiger.

38
by on 01/04/2008 12:57pm

I'd say if you taunt a tiger, you should know what the consequences might be. No zoo can contain every animal perfectly.

If it turns out they taunted or harassed the tiger, I hope they are counter-sued.

39
by on 01/04/2008 12:42pm

Stupidity of the kids or not, they didn't deserve to be killed/mauled for being stupid.
It's clear that the zoo DIDNT have a tall enough wall around the exhibit, and that even an overly fat zoo tiger when sufficiently annoyed, could manage to scale it. IF the zoo had increased the height of the wall to that recommended in current standards, the death would not have occurred however much the kids taunted the tiger. There are so many things that the zoo did wrong, there's no doubt they are culpable. The only good that can come of this is to make SF and other zoos improve security for their animals. Most zoos are horrific places for large animals, anyway, and barely justify their existence by the "education/conservation/reproduction" mantra.

40
by on 01/04/2008 12:39pm

OK, so never let it be said I don't value your input! The title has been altered to reflect your suggestion.

41
by on 01/04/2008 11:53am

I feel most sorry for the tiger in this case.

42
by on 01/04/2008 11:39am

You should change it to that quote because that is exactly what the original post was about. We don't need to sugarcoat it, that kid and his friends were idiots! Why should we feel overly-sorry for the natural consequences that were suffered for taunting a WILD ANIMAL?

Do we feel sorry for folks who get DUI charges because they drink? No!

Do we feel sorry for folks who have their wages garnished because they cheated the IRS? No!

Do we feel sorry for murders who go to jail for life? No!

The only reason the whole world isn't laughin their a$$es off at these fools is because tigers lack the language skills necessary to tell the world what REALLY happened. Give them a few Rosetta Stone courses and opposable thumbs and I bet we'd hear their side of the story!

43
by on 01/04/2008 11:34am

I am *this* close to changing my title for this post based on that quote. LOVE it!

44
by on 01/04/2008 11:33am

Well said, Dr. Khuly!!

45
by on 01/04/2008 11:26am

What part of "Tatiana is a tiger did these idiots NOT understand?" I'm serious here, Dr. Patty. Wild animals are dangerous which is WHY they are kept behind fences and gates - no matter how high (or in this case) or how low they are! All tigers are wild, all tigers have the predisposition to be violent and anyone who would think that we could capture these wild animals and expect them to behave in thier unnatural domicile is not fair to them.

As you said, its not smart to provoke any animal, 5 lbs or 500 lbs. They don't have the same logic as we do and they aren't going to consider the consequences before they act. As a matter of fact, I don't think any cat, domestic or wild, does! They don't listen and they don't follow our rules. They follow THEIR rules and if THEIR rules aren't followed and THEIR fence isn't high enough, there will be hell to pay. (Just ask my decorative bathroom towels that have over time been shredded to pieces because a sum total of 18 lbs worth of two housecats haven't gotten their daily brushing in time).

In the words of the great Chris Rock, "That tiger didn't go crazy, that tiger went tiger!"

46
Idiots run rampant...
by on 12/29/2010 05:53pm

shoot them....not an animal that was captured and imprisoned against its will.

"Life is tough...being stupid makes it tougher." -the Duke

The idiot died for being stupid and it's the law of nature that the weak die...survival of the fittest. Too bad the other two morons didn't die too.


47
stoned and drunk punks sf
by on 02/15/2011 08:23pm

the 3 youths got drunk and stoned then taunted the lions and tigers

48
Tiger, tiger burning.....
by on 03/18/2011 08:39pm

Darwinism at it's most illustrative. If others (innocents) were injured, then I would claim 2nd amendment rights were violated. As it was, it proved even monkeys can fall out of trees.
We Americans get permits and licenses and training for everything; except for maybe the most important of all. Raising children.

49
Re:That Tiger went crazy!
by on 04/15/2011 02:43am

The surviving victims in question are to little wannabe thug scumbags from San Jose, CA, with the criminal record to show for it. Amritpal "Paul" and Kulbir Dhaliwal are trying to get money to support their Marijuana habits and business and have been heard at local parties saying how they infact provoked Tatiana!!!

LEAVE COMMENTS

Connect with Facebook or login to leave comments.


About fully vetted

Patty Khuly, VMD, MBA

Photo of Dr Khuly

Dr. Khuly is a former petMD blogger and small animal veterinarian in Miami, Florida, where she practices medicine at Sunset Animal Clinic and serves on the board of the South Florida Veterinary Medical Association. She is a graduate of Wellesley College, the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine, and The Wharton School of Business.

As a significant sideline, she writes...a lot. She authors pet health columns for USA Today, The Miami Herald and Vetstreet. She also writes a popular monthly column for Veterinary Practice News and serves as regular contributor to Veterinary Economics, The Bark, and the Veterinary News Network.

Dr. Khuly lives in South Miami with her brood of hens, goats, dogs, cats...and humans.

Subscribe to Fully Vetted

Most Read Fully Vetted Articles

Check Your Pet Food Bags!
The recall of pet foods manufactured at a Diamond Pet Food plant in Gaston, S.C....
READ MORE
No Excuse for Skipping Rabies Vaccination
The Carlsbad, New Mexico area just suffered through one of the worst rabies outbreaks...
READ MORE
Any Dog Can Bite
May 20-26 is National Dog Bite Prevention Week. Being bitten is just one of the...
READ MORE
A New Link Between Pet and Human Health
A study appearing in the journal Emerging Infectious Diseases points to a new link...
READ MORE

Most Commented Articles

No Excuse for Skipping Rabies Vaccination
The Carlsbad, New Mexico area just suffered through one of the worst rabies outbreaks...
READ MORE
Does Horse Racing Deserve Your Support?
I breathed a big sigh of relief on the evening of Saturday, May 5. The 138th running...
READ MORE
Maggots: Thumbs Up or Down?
The weather is starting to heat up here in Colorado, which means that any day...
READ MORE
Palliative Care ≠ Murder
I talked yesterday about compassion fatigue, which often develops when caregivers...
READ MORE
 
MORE FROM PETMD.COM
©1999-2012 petMD, LLC. All Rights Reserved
x
Stay informed about your pet's health...and more!